EP 19 - Can Gospel Music Take Over Secular Spaces & Rep Jesus Well?

Welcome in. One reason, uh, how long have you been on Twitch? Why don't you start with that? How did, how long have you been on Twitch? How did you get started, uh, on Twitch as a streamer?

As a streamer?

Well, even just get connected to begin with and then as a streamer.

Oh, well, you know, I came over with everybody else in 2020 with the, um, mass exodus from Instagram Live and Facebook Live and all that stuff. So we came over. Well, I came over. I was listening to a DJ over there on, uh, Instagram Live one day and he kept getting cut off because of the, you know, copyrights.

Right?

And things like that. So he was like, "If we get cut off one more time, I'm not coming back on. Download this app, Twitch, and, uh, follow me over there." And, uh, I came over. It was like going from waiting on the line outside.

Oh, yeah.

For hours to getting straight in VIP service. You got.

Oh.

The special section. That's, that's how it felt. It went from going from the basement to the penthouse.

The chat was so much nicer. They had emotes. I was like.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Love. I love, I love the emotes in the chat. It's so.

Yeah, that's what got me. That's really, yeah, they're, they're the best. I'm so glad that, uh, affiliates have, uh, animated emotes now, cuz for a while that was just for the partners.

Yeah. Yeah.

But, um.

Yeah, so I was just listening, you know, going from DJ to DJ, and, uh, for a while I was like, I want to do this too, cuz I was streaming a little on Facebook and Instagram and stuff like that, just playing some gospel music, and, um, same thing, getting cut off, but it seemed like it was like really fast. So I stopped early on in the pandemic, but then, um, there was a DJ. He goes by, I know, DJLV here on Twitch, and, uh, he did a Sunday morning, uh, brunch is what it was called. So it was gospel and inspirational music, and it was the same people that was in every other stream that I was in, partying all day, all night. And I was like, "Okay, so they do want the gospel." So that gave me the, um, I wouldn't say inspiration as well, but it gave me the confirmation to bring, uh, my radio show over to Twitch. And, uh, yeah, I've been doing it for going on five years.

Yeah. Yeah. I say you've, you've been on as long as, as I've been on. You were one of the first people that I got connected with and introduced to, uh, early on, and when I was streaming, or when I was watching before I was streaming, you were one of the people that Ukulele for Worship was, uh, often raiding, and, uh.

Go out there, go there for a while, and just hang out listening to, uh, gospel music. So had you been, so you were talking about watching a lot of DJs and doing some, what, what is, um, your setup or as far as getting into doing DJ? Was it just like you loved watching it, so you decided to do it? What, what kind of was your background leading into doing, uh, that kind of style of leading people in worship?

Um, as far as DJ going, that's something that growing up in the eighties, you know, being in New York, we were the mecca of hip-hop. So I was into the entire culture of hip-hop. So that was from break dancing to rapping to doing a little graffiti here and there. And there was a DJ that lived on the floor above me, and he was a house DJ down in the Village.

Okay.

Yeah.

So I used to sit in his, uh, living room and just watch him work. Um, I always wanted to learn how to do it. You wouldn't let me touch any piece of equipment, but he would let me hold a notebook and a stopwatch with a pen and just count the BPMs to all his records.

Okay.

And the only time I could touch them was to write the BPM on the label with a Sharpie and put it neatly and safely back into the sleeve. So, uh, for a while that was all I could do. And then he let me touch something, and it was like, "Oh, okay." Taught me how to match beats, do some back and forths, uh, blends, transitions, stuff like that. So, but I wasn't really into it, into it, but I love music, you know what I mean? So.

Um, yeah, I was doing some radio stuff in, uh, college, and, um, I just love gospel music. So when I decided to do a show, that's what I wanted to play, cuz that's what I wanted to hear.

Right?

And we had so many DJs, everybody playing everything else, you know what I mean? We had like five hip-hop DJs, about four R&B DJs, we had three rock DJs. So it was like people doing everything. So, um, I was doing gospel music in, uh, City College on the student station and on the community radio.

Okay.

Um, Harlem Community Radio. So I was doing this show, and I called it the Midday Gospel Takeover.

Okay.

Um, I was on from eleven to one. So right in the middle of the day. I thought it was good. And, um, yeah, I was doing that for a while. In my church, I helped with the sound, um, doing the boards there. So that was kind of my in to, uh, the actual community radio, because I was like, I know how to work boards. I have done board work at a Lehman College radio station, and, um, I, uh, just, um.

Producing.

So to speak. So like a little sound engineering in a recording studio, you know, touching the boards and things like that. So I was like, "Yo, I could do this." So I started off working the boards, and then they, uh, they let me get a slot. Um, so also I was doing like different gospel brunches in my church and just doing stuff like that. Just playing music whenever I could play music. But DJing wasn't really my thing, thing. So I tell people I'm not a DJ, but I play music. I do DJ things.

Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's kind of like, okay, I'm on Twitch. I'm not a gamer. I mean, I do gaming, but I'm, I'm not really a gamer.

I play games.

I do DJ things. Yeah.

I play games. I'm not a gamer. No.

Uh, right. Cuz there is a difference.

Oh, there is a difference.

And I respect our culture too much to be like, I'm a DJ, and I'm not really.

Yeah. I do, you know.

Yeah, I totally get that. And boy, when you're talking about doing the beats per minute and the mixing and all of that stuff, man, I, I do remember seeing the old school setups with the, the multiple, you know, records, and you're setting up over here and you're looping that one over there. Uh, I always found that fascinating. I, I never, you know, jumped in and did it, but, uh, uh, I do have, uh, at least one friend from high school that was into it back in high school that I see him post every once in a while that he's still DJing. Um, I don't know what his equipment is anymore, but, uh, you know, that's kind of interesting how you can hang on to something and then culturally it kind of shifts and change and goes away, but there's still a place for it as it changes, evolves, becomes something different than it was to begin with.

Uh, what was, um, so you said gospel was, uh, the thing that you were most into. I've not heard a lot of sampling of people doing gospel. Are there a couple of artists that do a lot of like gospel sampling where you're mixing a bunch of stuff? Cuz most gospel that I hear is just straightforward. Here's a gospel song.

Yes, there are. Okay.

It's, uh, it's been a shift in the, uh, way some DJs play gospel music, especially like the younger DJs.

Yeah.

And the DJs that were really heavy into like hip-hop or like club DJs.

Right?

Mixtape DJs, you know, you can't get that blending and mixing and just putting different things together out of you. And as long as they keep the message the same, they usually try to mix in and, you know, put some secular music with, you know, the gospel lyrics and things like that. So, um, a good example of that is a DJ. He's not DJing too much on Twitch anymore, but, um, DJ IRock Jesus.

Oh, okay.

Oh my goodness. Blend Master. He has the whole thing called Blends Day.

And he does.

You know, amazing, amazing blends. Um, another person that does that a lot, um, you can catch him on Sundays here on Twitch is, uh, DJ Droopy, uh, 007. Uh, he has a, um, gospel morning show on Sundays.

Okay.

And, um, what time is it? I think it's nine a.m. Eastern time. I believe it's nine. If not, it's eight. It's either eight or nine.

Eight. Thank you. Watching.

She knows.

Yeah, I'm watching.

AM.

Yeah. Eight, eight to ten.

Eight to ten. And then he, he's got to jet off to church.

Yeah.

Um, so yeah, you know, um, and there's a bunch of other people. Uh, I don't even have my list in front of me, but.

Oh, that's okay. I, I was just like, I just, when you were talking about the mixing thing, that just got, just got me curious like that's where I told you like we'll ask, I have a set of questions I'll ask, and there's like just the curious questions like, oh, that got me curious about that, like, oh man.

That shows a good interviewer, you know? You could just go in any direction. Well, some of it is just the way my mind works, and I, I've got a hundred different things I could ask and go, and it's like, which one am I going to actually do? But there's that just level of curiosity because I am genuinely curious about my friends on Twitch and what they're doing. But it's not always feels like, oh, the right time to come in and watch your stream and ask you a bunch of questions, you know, like, like you're doing your thing. Let me interrupt you to ask you what I want to know. That's, that's not, you know, that's not cool.

Well, I mean, your community is there for you. Now, it's not, I can't ask some questions, you know.

I have a channel redemption that is an Ask Me Anything.

Yep.

So you redeem that.

I'll have to, I'll have to start doing it. I'll just, I'll just have to start looking for people with Ask Me Anything, and then and then pop with the most obscure question like.

Yeah, just, just a litany of questions.

Ask Me Anything, and then book page of all the things that I want to know. So.

Chapter two.

Yeah, chapter two, and, uh, chapter three. We'll be, I just get getting more points so I can keep asking, but.

Yeah, looking is helpful.

Oh, yeah. Well, I don't know if you were, um, hit or know people that were hit yesterday with, uh, Twitch bans. So there were several. I was all over TikTok and Twitter, and I know Pastor Dustin got banned. So lurkers that don't say anything were getting identified as bots, and so.

I heard you say that earlier.

Yeah. So I think it's because his fish channel probably has people that stay in there. They have it tabbed up. They, they don't always chat. So they were being identified as bots. He got banned. But it was all over a lot of other people as well had that happen. So, but I know, I know when I'm in your channel often right after I come in, I'm just listening to the music and enjoying it. So I do end up lurk. It's like, "Oh, okay. I just need to remember every once in a while, throw some emojis in the chat." Uh, when, when it, when it's, I got to get up and move to this song kind of a thing, you know.

Yeah, definitely. Um, that was the entire setup of the channel. That's why I'm on so early.

Yeah.

As well. Um, because I know people get ready in the morning. You're not always going to be by your laptop, you know, being able to chat. Not going to be always be able to pick up your phone or walk around with your phone and everything like that. If you don't have your AirPods on or your headphones or on the Bluetooth, you know, loud.

Oh, yeah.

Cuz it's music, you know what I mean? And every once in a while I say something only because people are talking in the chat. If not, it would just be music. That's keeping up.

Like I started, I started no camera, no mic, just music. No, hardly any visuals. I was just using my DJ program to broadcast straight to Twitch. And it had like a video player, you know, back in the day with your computer.

Yeah.

When it would have the wave notes and all that.

That's all it was. So that's what, so you put that on stream, the wave up and down. Did you put that?

Yeah, it was automatic. And sometimes it would have the what song it was?

Yeah.

Um, I made one with like just a white background and like a black circle. That's all it was. Had the song name in the middle and some wave effects. Just about it. That's all we were doing.

You know, well, I'll dig into that a little bit more, but I just love hearing like looking back and seeing like where did you start and how did you get started and all of those things. And it's like, you can look at my setup bag. I got a whole bunch of hats hanging back. Hey, thank you for the following.

Um, I don't have the right channel up to look. I'll look in a second. Thank you for the follow. Thank you for coming in. Appreciate that.

What up, Ben? Christ made Ben. There we go. I found it. North Live. Hey, Pastor Pink Hawk. See, Crosby, what up my brother?

Yeah, a bunch of people, you know. They're all coming to hear all the stuff that nobody asked on channel.

Oh, hey. Hey, Miss Lynette. So, so you were doing something that you knew how to do and trying to figure out how to do it in a new venue, in a new format. So you said that you were watching DJs, that's how you got over to Twitch. And then you found one that was doing Gospel on Sunday. Was it when you saw Gospel on Sunday that you said, "Hey, I could go do this," or what was it that you said, "Hey, this is something I should jump on and do as well for other people."

I was doing it already. Like I was already playing gospel music. So like I said, I was doing, I'm watching people try to get me.

Yeah.

Tripped up. Send me pumpkin spice and peach crumbles. Oh man. Um, yeah. No, I was doing it already. So like I said, I was playing gospel and things in my church, you know. I would always be on the side with the music and working the boards. So I was doing that and then I was on the radio playing gospel music.

The thing about Twitch is when I came here, I saw all the DJs. Yeah.

Right. I saw there was a bunch of gamers, you know, it's a gamer site.

Chess chatters. I was like, "Oh, this is cool. This is nice, nice." I was looking for two things specifically when I got here. I was looking for female DJs and gospel DJs. And it took me a minute to find both.

Yeah.

Because I was like, "I want to, but do I?" Like, you know what I mean? Does anybody even want to hear it?

So like, the confirmation was getting the notification and the title said "Sunday Brunch Gospel and Inspirational Music." I said, "Oh, I got to check this out."

Yeah. So when I went in there, like I said, everybody that was hanging out just that Saturday night and all day during the week going from DJ to DJ, which was like club hopping for free.

Yeah.

I was like, "Oh, and y'all here, I knew y'all wanted it like I wanted it, right?" So that just gave me the confirmation that there is a place for it and that, you know, stop the second guessing and go ahead and hit go live.

Oh yeah. Yeah. That's so interesting. How many people I've talked to, whatever they're doing, it was, "I didn't know I could bring Jesus into this space. I didn't know I was allowed to, or I didn't know how it would be received." But then once you do it, there is a good reception. And the reception isn't going to be everybody. You know, no, nobody's expecting that. But even people doing all the other secular things, they don't all have good receptions either, you know.

So.

Exactly.

So the reception's about the same regardless if you're Christian or not. It's just, uh.

Hey, wait a minute.

Are you going to do it?

I'm going to do it. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. I say it took me six months before I decided I was going to stream on Twitch because I thought, "No, this isn't anything I'm supposed to be doing." Um.

And I kept having people tell me, "Go follow him, he's going to go live," and I'm like, "No, man, I'm not doing that. Why would I do that? This isn't my thing." And now I'm doing a podcast because, hey, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. And.

And what do I love doing? I love chatting and talking. So I'm all over that category. That's not a problem. Now I'm in the podcast category. And now, you know, it's getting people on, getting you exposed to people who know nothing about DJing, who don't follow gospel music, but are going to say, "Hey, I don't know if the church can actually go into digital spaces and make an impact for the kingdom." It's helping those people who are in the space feel encouraged that, "Hey, there's a lot of people that are doing this. It's not one or two that I ran into," or "It's not that weird person at church always talking about it. There's a whole bunch of other people."

Yeah, I know you're.

Yeah, that weird person at church.

Yeah, that's that's me. That's I'm. That's the looks I get all the time. That weird guy always talking about stuff. That's me. Um.

Who's that Jesus freak?

Yeah. Yeah. Even at church, I get those looks, you know, so it's okay. Uh, so you started out small. How often were you streaming? And did you have, uh, here's what I think I should do and see if it works, or was it, "No, no, I got to go do this and go all in?"

Yeah, it was just go all in. I was, I started at some point in the middle of the night. I just hit go live and I was just up playing music. I was like, "I want to hear it. Hopefully somebody will want to hear it with me," and that's it. I was on adjusting times. It was just me, my two bots, and my cell phone. That's it. And I was just, I had my headphones on just jamming. And um, I was looking for different times. So early on in the pandemic, because everybody was getting up and having, um, you know, homeschool.

Yeah.

Um, I was like, "I might as well get up and do something, too." So I just started playing music for like the teachers and everybody getting ready in the morning. So I was on at 5:00. I was like, "Nah, this is way too early." So I started at 6:00.

I feel that.

So I went to 6:00 and that was a good time. Um, even though 5:00 I lost some of my people. Moving to seven, I lost a lot of early people because they're already at work. But um, yeah, between five, six, and then it was just trying to get up at 4 to be ready. It was just like, "This is too much." So 7:00 is a nice comfortable space. I really wanted the afternoon, you know, midday gospel takeover.

But everybody that I watch is on the afternoon. So I was like, "I want to watch them. I don't want to be streaming while they are." So 7 o'clock was my comfort zone. And um, yeah, I like it. I still do. Every once in a while I'll do a midday gospel takeover. So that's anything after 11.

Yeah.

Is midday for me. And then I would do, I was doing once in a while something called the uh, rush hour of power. So that was after 5:00.

For those that are on their way home.

Yeah.

So because people in the morning was like, "Ah, it's too early. West Coast is like, 'Forget about it.'"

Oh yeah.

You know, if you're not up at 4, I'll see you when I see you in the Twitch streets. But um, yeah, so I started doing some afternoon catching them while they're having breakfast or their board or whatever.

Yeah.

And then the evening I could just catch whoever I catch, you know, those that are not on other channels. But.

It was just a lot to do, two, three streams a day. So it was just like, I stay in the morning and every once in a while I'll do uh, the extra joints. But yeah, I went in full force. Once I got comfortable and my wife was finally on board, I was like, "Yeah, let's do it." I went, I got a controller. I had to get a new streaming laptop, a new DJing laptop. There was like so much, you know what I mean? You know the deal.

Oh, yeah.

You start off and it's like, "This is an investment. Are we going to do this or not?"

Yeah.

And then you decide to do it, you got to, you got to go full, like all in, or else you're just wasting time and money, you know?

Oh yeah. Yeah. You.

And your talent.

Yeah. You make an investment in a little bit higher of something knowing you're sacrificing upgrading everything at once, kind of a thing, so that you can gradually keep doing things. I think early on, one of the first things I did was go, "Okay, I need to get a camera and I need to get a microphone. So which do I choose?" You know, it's the you one or the other. And at that time.

I got my mic first.

Well, at that time, I ended up getting a hand-me-down microphone.

So, uh, it was like, "Okay, this one works way better than the built-in microphone. This works pretty good. This will get me by for a while so I can upgrade camera." And then upgraded camera. And now I've gone back to upgrading microphone. I love this microphone. Uh, I still.

This is a Road. Uh, it's the.

It looks like a Road.

Yeah. Yeah. It's got the USB and the XLR. I got the dual one. So right now I'm using the USB, but I've got it so that if I upgrade tech later on, I don't have to get a new mic and replace it. So I'm planning ahead for anything that's happening down the road. So Road, if you want to sponsor this episode, I'll plug you even more. But, uh.

Listen. Hey.

They going to claim it.

I know. I know. You know, I, we were having a conversation not too long ago about who would you want to sponsor you? I'm like, "I'm down with Road sponsoring me. I'm down with, you know, Elgato. I mean, I'm not picky. You know, if I'm using your stuff, sponsor me. You know."

Sponsor me.

If you give me free stuff that's just as good, you know, I'll take it. I'm not, I'm not ashamed to uh, to say God can provide through any different way that he chooses to provide for us.

Absolutely. Because that's how he, that's how he works. He works through people.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? So he's going to put the people in place that he needs to help you out to do what he has you here to do. So.

And I believe that, man, because listen, the stuff I got, ain't no way I can afford everything that I'm sitting in front of to do what I do and not even get it back. You know what I mean? Because.

Twitch ain't, ain't no way Twitch making me rich right now. You know what I mean? So definitely have to have a love for it.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, there's, I think there are some people that are full-time and can do that. With my family, with my wife, and all of that, um, it's not going to be the way that I'm doing things. I also am bringing the gospel to people. You're bringing the gospel music to people, right?

That.

That's not where those people are used to giving. They're not going to in the same way say, "Oh, well, I know what a pastor gets paid, so you should be getting paid that to bring the like." What's really weird is I spend more time with people on my stream reading the word of God than I spent with people in the church.

Um, over years, over years, I spend that much time in a month with people and the amount that the church would pay me and the amount that Twitch will pay me, like, there's no comparison. Like, nah, I'm not making a living here. Um, but I also don't feel that the people I'm reaching need to be the ones paying for my living either, you know.

Uh, I feel like it's pioneering space, bringing the gospel into it, and so there's the obedience part of it, and God will take care of the rest of it. And.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. Uh, let me just see. There's a bunch of chat popping up there. PBI, welcome in. Thank you. First time chatter. Uh, I'm watching. Jazzy can sponsor me. Uh, can give me a power chair with the parameters and streaming chair. A streaming chair.

Oh, okay. I was thinking a streaming power chair. My brain was going really high-tech there. And that would be dope.

That wouldn't it be dope?

A streaming com. Could you imagine how comfortable that would be? I watch a streaming power chair. And it has built-in so that you can stream IRL from the power chair.

There we go. Right there. Right. Yo, where the where were the engineers in the chat? You need an engineer to put this together.

Yeah. The first person to do it. I mean, come on. You're going to sell a bunch of them to Twitch streamers, right?

Hello. I'll get one. Yeah. Uh, obedience is definitely better than sacrifice. You're right about that. Absolutely. And that's why we still here doing it.

Yeah. Five years later. You know what I mean? Cuz shoot the cheese on TV just for the cheese. Thank you for the follow.

Hi, I'm I'm getting distracted by chat and all this. This is fun though. This is fun. It's all great. It's all great.

And is here. So just to kind of continue the story. So you you started out small and and you were doing things.

How long were you usually streaming for and how often? Uh, and when did you decide where it fit within what you're doing and being able to reach other people and then, you know, time with everything else you've got in life?

Um, at first I was just streaming until I got tired. Okay. Or I was done, you know what I mean? Or somebody else was coming on, I would just wait for them to go live and be like, "All right, we're rating them." Okay.

But um I had to put parameters on things. So I was like two hours we're done. Yep. If you come in because people were coming in at like four to nine, ten to nine.

I was like ah here are the people. So let's let's keep going you know but if you miss it now get here on time.

That's all I can say because you know with everything else you know you have to do other things and besides I'm also like modding and also there's other things that I'm doing work um you know getting family together doing things in the house you know blah blah all the things of life you know.

Exactly. Got to go put some sun on your face touch some grass like they say. Oh yeah. So, you know, it was like, are you going to stream all day or are you going to just make a specific schedule?

So, I had to make a schedule and uh we stick to it, you know. Yeah. Absolutely. My mods will tell me uh it's time to go.

It I do I do have that sense though at times which when it's really hard. It's like I was just about to raid out and someone raided me.

That is the hardest. That is the hardest thing at times is to get raided and go, man, I want to support all of you that just came in with the raid.

I was fixing to leave. Busy. Well, and it and for me sometimes it's it's how often have I seen this person? Have they raided me before?

Is this a person who never gets to raid me, so I'll I'll stick around for a bit? But it's also the do I have a hard out?

Because sometimes I like I would try to okay, here's my gap. I'll finish streaming and then I'll have a half hour before I go to a meeting.

Now I'm like I'm quitting streaming. I'm raiding as I'm starting a meeting on the side here. It's like, man, I'm just going all the way up to every minute to to give to people, but it's still like I got a hard out.

I can't stay. This is it. This is the end. Goodbye. We'll see you tomorrow or we'll see you next time. Whatever it is. So there is there is the level at which it's always there and can always happen but you have to figure out where and when your space is in the space I think so.

Absolutely. So I love I love that you're doing that. Uh can do you have any uh like stories of life impact that you've impacted people uh they've come into your channel and your stream.

and they've hung out for a while. U and then they've just had life impact from being able to hang out with you and your community.

Oh man, so many texts and whispers and yeah, emails and DMs and Discord messages. I I I can't even begin. There were people that came in in uh you know the height of pandemic and everybody was struggling and just looking for relief and release.

Yeah. And I believe that we provided a space where people could feel welcome and they could feel comfortable and they could feel encouraged.

You know what I mean? That God loves us. God cares for us and he's gonna get us through this one way or another.

You know what I mean? And all things work together for the good of those that love him. And even with everything that was going on in 2020, the world was refreshed.

Yeah. With everybody inside, the air quality was beautiful. The sun was shining bright. You know what I mean? It was quiet. The birds were chirping louder.

It was amazing. You know what I mean? But at the same time, we had so many tragedies and people were having so many losses and they were losing their jobs and all the things was happening.

So we was coming in, we were just praying for each other, we were encouraging each other, we were crying with each other, we were laughing with each other.

So when somebody lost a job, we prayed for them. When somebody got a job, we prayed with them. Yeah. You know what I mean?

So it was like we went through every low and high that you know you could go through and we did it together. And over over the days and months and years just people keep coming in like I didn't know I needed this.

And I was like, I ain't know I needed it either. You know what I mean? So, it's like the the fact that we could have a virtual community while we weren't able to gather in person was a beautiful thing in an alternative version to a traditional church where it's like you

still feel the spirit moving, you still feel the love of people and you still getting the word in various ways because we definitely were praying.

He definitely was speaking scripture um in the chat and we were definitely trying to keep it within the will and the consciousness of God, you know.

So just loving on each other and just being positive and telling people to just hold on to your hope and hold on to your joy, keep your faith and use it at the same time.

You know what I mean? Cuz faith is what we may have, but trust is what we do with it. So it's like you got to have faith in God and trust him that he was going to see you through.

So that was mainly my main thing when we started was just to look to give people hope and to you know just to help them to feel good and encouraged and knowing that you know God is real.

Yeah. Basically. Yeah. And the the I'm just I'm just thinking through and listen to what you're saying and and I've experienced that and seen that.

But I'm thinking on some level there were people that could have just turned on a radio station and listened to gospel music and they would have missed everything you were just talking about.

It would have only been consuming content of gospel music. It wouldn't have been a community that is loving one another, praying for one another, sharing one another's burdens, walking alongside of one another.

the that aspect of digital community is so amazing to me. You know it, you've experienced it. That the difference of people that I know in church and in person and you see them once a week.

When I was a kid growing up, I always felt like it was the strangest thing. I go to school daily with people. I hang out all week with people and then Sunday I go hang out with different people I don't know.

Um, it's like the people I know I hang out with on a daily basis. That's those are the people I know. The people I know are from school, not not from Sunday school, you know?

I see them once a week and we're in rows and we just behave and we go home. In school, I get lunch and recess with them.

I get before and after school with them. I mean, I get to hang out on the bus with them. I mean, I get to spend life with them.

Church didn't do that in a lot of ways. It was you all arrive separately, you all go in in an orderly fashion, you you go do whatever the thing is that you're supposed to and you go home afterwards.

And maybe a couple of times a year we do a potluck so we can eat together and actually spend time together. But most of the time it wasn't.

No, I don't know uh on a any depth level. most of the people that I sit in the pew next to um but the people that uh yeah you can hang out in the chat with uh you get to know what's going on in their life.

Absolutely. And that's why those uh meetups, the IRL meetups were so vital in those beginning years in 21 and 22 and 23 cuz it was like we spent all this time and we've gotten to know each other.

so personally with such distance between us. Yeah. So those inperson meetups started making more sense like I want to put a face to this name, right?

Let's get this virtual hug in real life. You know what I mean? You know, masked up, but you know, we gonna do that.

just put your name tag on and let's find out who's who. Yeah. So, like those things were, you know, definitely dope and amazing.

The two that we did in New York in uh 23 and 24, those were great. Uh yeah, those were amazing. So, what what was the the catalyst for starting those in-person meetups?

What was the decision? I I mean I can guess, but what was the the the reason behind the community and how did you decide where to do those?

Um it was basically Yeah, basically just what we just said, spending all that time virtually together. The first one I went to was in Baltimore.

Um well, not Baltimore. It was in Maryland, pretty close to Baltimore, but it was in Maryland. Um, but there was a group um in Atlanta that just kept getting together.

They just kept meeting up and putting all these pictures out and we was like, I want to meet y'all, too. So, it's like, yeah.

So, the first one I went to was in Maryland and I was like, "Oh, we got to do this in New York." I was like, "I don't know who's in New York.

I don't know who wants to come to New York. I don't know who else is streaming from New York, but we going to do one in New York.

And um in uh 22 I wanted I mean in 21 I wanted to do one, but I was like, "Nah, it's too soon. Nobody's getting sick on my watch."

Right. In 2022 I wanted to do it also, but that's when it came back. Yep. And I was like, "Nope." So 23 we did one and the catalyst was basically just let's get together.

Um, what I wanted to do was to make it all, you know, a free event. Just y'all come and hang out. You know, just get here and find somewhere to stay and everything else would be cool.

You know, first one didn't turn out like that cuz like I said, I ain't I ain't I I ain't rich like I like I need a sponsor for for the one that we going to do next year.

But um you know just working with the places around between the Bronx and Long Island and Manhattan, you know, we had some things that you know came together.

So it was nice in both both events and just you know to love up on each other basically. Yeah. In uh in another city, you know.

Yeah. It's it's totally fascinating to to have, you know, in-person meetups. They're they're fantastic. I I love them. Um I'm going to be heading to Chicago over the weekend, so I'm just going to post I'm in Chicago.

Hit me up if you're in Chicago. Like and and spur-of the-moment kind of things happen. And in fact, some some have been people traveling and then traveling further to come see me or I've traveled to see them.

So, you know, had a friend who was in the States from the UK and they were going to be five hours away from me and they invited me to come hang out with them at a museum.

And I'm like, you know, I'm doing that. U you you're you're all the way over on this side of the pond. I'm driving five hours to go to a museum with you.

You know, I'm gonna, it's like, but it was like they were also really important to me as well. So it wasn't just anyone. It was, it was like, "Oh yeah, for you, absolutely. I'm driving five hours one way. This is not a problem."

Um, and then I had that reciprocated to me just last month. A friend I've known, not from streaming, but just I've known online for three years. We've been in ministry partners together. Uh, was in Chicago and the event she was coming to got cancelled. So she's like, "Where you at? Uh, I might come see you cuz I got a prayer booth." And she knew about it. She'd been praying about it and she'd hear me talk about it. She's like, "I want to see it." So she just drove up from Chicago, four-hour drive to my house. So I showed her the prayer booth, went around town, showed her things around town, we went to dinner, we went to ice cream, and she drove back to Chicago.

I'm like, and she drove up from, uh, Georgia to go to Chicago. So it's not like, you know, hey, I couldn't just go home and save myself some time and do something else. It was like, "No, uh, this is an opportunity." And her and her husband sees it. Had a great time. It was fantastic.

Nice. Yeah, I've had that experience with some people that were just in town to do something else. Um, and they just were like, "We're going to be in New York on this date." And I'm like, I had to tell my wife like, "Oh, what are you doing? These people are coming, you know, want to go hang out." So it's like, yeah. And she's gotten a lot better with that too, just like meeting Twitch people cuz she's like she doesn't do the Twitch thing really.

Oh yeah.

She's like that's your thing. But um, you know, you got to thank God for a supportive wife. You know what I mean?

Oh my goodness. I would not be sitting here without a supportive wife. It would—

I wouldn't, I wouldn't either.

Would not happen. No. What's, uh, what's really funny is so, uh, when we got started, uh, I had my boys living in the basement because they graduated from college, were unemployed in COVID. So they're living in my basement. So this was, uh, one of the bedrooms that, uh, my son was in. Next door is another one. So I was upstairs in one bedroom. My wife is in the other. That's her office. I took over. I still had a bed in there because somebody still needed to sleep in there. So I had a bed behind me. I had my cam all set up and she's on the other wall listening to me stream and she's laughing and cracking up and all this. She's texting me in the middle of whatever story I'm telling and whatever, texting me and enjoying it. And then I move down to the basement and she's like, "Oh man, I miss you." I go, "Well, we can just set you up with your own Twitch account over here and you could just have me up live." No, I'm supposed to be working. You were supposed to be working with all the other stuff was happening too. It was fine then. Why is it a problem now if I set you up with a real system? Put you, put myself up over here. You can watch me the whole time. You can listen. You know everybody in the community. No. No. I'm, that's your thing. I got to work.

It's better live.

It's better live. Like I can hear you through the wall. That's how she wants it. And, uh, so every once in a while I will have to say, "So guess what happened on stream today?" And she's like, "I have no idea. What did you do now?" You know.

That's what's up though. That's always a good thing.

Yeah, it was just like, "Watch the stream already." Exactly. Like, put the stream up, watch it. I've actually thought about just creating her her own account even if she doesn't watch so that I can have one more stream watching me. But now, now I'm, now, you know, with all the botting going on, I better not do that. Better, better stay away from making fake accounts to just watch me.

Well, it wouldn't be a fake account per se.

No, it wouldn't be a fake account. It would be a real person behind it. You know, it would be a verified account, but yeah, the, the my wife supporting, uh, we do have all those conversations about, "Hey, tech upgrade?" "Now, no tech upgrade." Where, where are we at? What are the impacts in the community? Uh, and then, you know, I end up doing a bunch of travel to connect with people because I think that's part of what God has me doing. So it's, it's just amazing.

The progression of things from how they can start small to God blessing the community to God bringing certain individuals in that just end up being a super blessing to you and what you're doing.

Absolutely.

Um, so we're talking a little bit about some of the blessings and if you, if you think of an individual story you want to share, that's fine. We can come back to it. But what have been some of the challenges that you've, you've had to overcome with streaming? Either it's something in real life that's getting in the way of it or just some obstacles as far as how it happened for you. What are some challenges that you've, you've faced and God's helped you overcome, uh, being a Twitch streamer?

Um, for me it has been mostly equipment issues, you know. So like I said, had to get new laptops and new cameras and new microphones and new cables and stuff like that. So I would be in the middle of a stream and something would just break down. But since all of the upgrades, things have been doing very well. I probably need to make a few more purchases, but that's really just for like cables and like more hard drives for, you know, music and saving the videos, the recordings of the streams.

Um, the, uh, yeah, the only other thing that has been, you know, a challenge at times would just be like physically just, um, you know, getting up and just sitting here for hours and stuff like that. I mean, I'm, I'm already in a chair all day anyway, but just to have to—

Yeah.

Is is different. But um—

Yeah, I enjoy it. And by the time I look up, time is over. So yeah, it was basically been equipment challenges. That was my biggest things.

Oh, sorry. I'm just, uh, exclamation point TC. It apparently the command isn't working. So TCD is the church digital. So it was just going to, it should have a link that would show you the—so Jazzy, me the, uh, command's not working. We're talking about tech issues. Something's not working. Surprise, surprise. So, uh, yeah, that's, that's, um, what I mean, the slow progression, the overcoming things, the doing those at some point, it's—

It's hard to equate the challenges with the blessings that you have. They, they, they don't seem to be on the same level with all of those things.

And then there's people that just like, "Here's an impact in someone's life that you're making." I know that you do charity streams and things too. Why don't you talk a little bit about how you got started with doing some of the charity streams that you're doing and then what the charities you work with are and a little bit about what you're trying to do with that ministry.

Oh, with the charity streams, it started off I was invited to be a part of, uh, Beats for a Cure. Shout out to, uh, DJ Dman who's from, uh, Cleveland and, um, he works in, uh, Cleveland for and with the Cleveland Clinic. Okay.

And, um, he has breast cancer close to his heart. So he started a whole movement and, um, I've been privileged to be a part of that, um, for the last four years. So that's dope. Um, so Beats for Cure, that's one. Um, I did one, uh, for the American Heart Association. I did that in, um, in honor of my uncle who had, um, you know, heart failure and, um, you know, uh, you know, he passed not from that but, you know, it was complications after—

Right.

His heart replacement surgery. So, um, I do things for that. Um, what else do I do? Uh, being, um, in a spinal, uh, being in a wheelchair having a spinal cord injury. I just did my first spinal cord injury awareness raid train last year.

Y.

Um, I'm going to do another one, um, in September cuz that's spinal cord injury awareness month. So I do things for that to bring awareness to that and, um, just the effects, um, that, uh, a spinal cord injury can have on not only, you know, your physical but your mental health, your, you know, job situation and all of the things, your, uh, relational interactions and things like that. Like, everything changes, you know what I mean? And, um, you know, the, uh, the challenges and also the other blessings that come along with it cuz even though you might be handicapped, you're also handy capable, you know what I mean? Cuz there are things that you can do, you just have to use what you have and everything is adaptable. So that's the other thing. And then I'm connected to the B side, uh, the B side. And that was created by DJ Chanel B who's here on Twitch. Um, it started with DJs for DJs, um, spanning to all content creators, um, teaching artists and things of that nature. So with that we do advancement for DJs and other, um, creatives. Uh, we have scholarships that we work with, uh, DJ schools. We're now working with a college in order to, uh, give a scholarship away. Um, we do youth collaborations which was the basis, well, the main goal of our meetup last year in New York, our New York takeover. We introduced our youth programs, um, which is the art of teaching. So that's teaching young people how to DJ correctly and also, um, lyrics and beats, which is a creative writing—

Nice.

Um, program that, uh, I wrote up where, you know, we're teaching them how to, uh, create music and write lyrics correctly, you know what I mean? Along with that. So it's mostly for like, you know, young MCs, um, and, you know, maybe a little, you know, some singers. I'm not the best singer, so, you know, they could handle that part. But I do know how to write a lyric or two, so, you know, we do that. Um, what else do we do? Uh, what does, uh, awareness? Yes. And that's where we come in with the, um, the, uh, the different charities and the different things that we, um, bring awareness to. Um, whether it's pancreatic cancer, breast cancer, you know, spinal cord injuries, um, autism. We worked with Spinning Autism a few years ago.

Oh, okay.

Um, uh, just so many things.

I know. That's why I was asking because I, it always seems like—

It's like I'm trying to run through it in my head. I can't even think of all the things that we do.

Yeah. Um, and yeah, I just, because I got a love for people and I just want people to do their best, be their best, have the best, you know what I mean? And if I can't personally provide it, at least I would like to bring the attention to somebody that might be out there that can.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? You never know who's out there. You don't know who's listening. They might have a soft spot for what you are in need of. And just by mentioning it, they're like, "Hold up. I could help you," you know? And you know, there you go.

Yeah. Well, and, and I, I maybe when I was younger, I didn't understand the reason to need awareness of things, you know. It's like, "Oh yeah, I'm aware of it." No, no, that's not what we're talking about, you know. Not that, not that it exists. Okay, that's not awareness. Okay. Oh yeah. So, my, my, my, you know, whatever it is, um, that people are left-handed. I'm aware people are left-handed, but I don't know what it's like going through life being left-handed where everything that's created primarily is designed to be in your right hand.

All the buttons—

On my phone are designed for my right hand to hit with my thumb, not for the left-handed person to hit there. So, so saying awareness is much more than going, "Oh yeah, I know left-handed people exist." It's what is it like for them? Understanding the changes, the challenges, the differences, uh, the things that they need. And I'm just picking on left-handed cuz I don't know that there's really a need for left-handed awareness.

Is listen to get a whole scholarship for being left-handed.

Like, oh yeah, there were different things. They have to make specific things for left-handed people because like you said, everything is made for right-handed.

Yeah. You know, so yeah. No, it's true. But uh I think and I I've tried to do this with within the churches I've been at and I think my denomination's tried to address disability awareness uh in a lot of ways and unfortunately a lot of churches were built before anybody was thinking about accessibility.

And how do we figure out how to do accessibility and the church? One of the churches I served at, um, this was a major issue because the church was built in the 50s and the basement was built and the restrooms are built in the basement and they didn't have a sanctuary built for a decade. Then they built a they built the sanctuary upstairs and the bathrooms are in the basement.

Right. So anybody with a disability in the middle of winter in Iowa had to go out the front door of the church, go around on the sidewalk to the back door so they could come in and use the restroom. Now, that gonna happen in the middle of a worship service?

No. That's crazy. No. So, because of that limitation, it limited certain people's access to coming into worship and being there. Now, shortly after I got there, I'm like, we're going to do something about this. What's the quickest thing we can do? We put a chairlift in.

That's what they did at my church, too. So, it helped some. It did not help all. Uh but it was like we can do this now and we can try to plan for the future to do more things and figure out other things. Ultimately I and I've moved on since that church, but what we were hoping to move in the direction of is let's build a restroom upstairs. That's the best solution uh to it. It was a limited solution, but it was like if I didn't take and consider the person who couldn't make it, they would never be there and I wouldn't be aware of it because they weren't there. I had to be aware it was an issue to see the person who it was affecting. If that makes sense. And I'm sure that makes sense to you.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And that was uh that's another challenge that you know my um my church still kind of has cuz the uh the bathrooms are in the basement. They did make a you know they put in a chair lift. Um they they still need to make an elevator instead. And also the bathrooms like the the stalls are still like you know.

Oh yeah. If you've got old tight, you know what I mean? So yeah, they're not handicap accessible if you've got really old stalls. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, like I can't even get my wheelchair past the, you know, the threshold of trying to use the bathroom. So, it's like I always got to make sure that if anything's happening, you know, my wife is around or somebody, you know, she can help me, you know, get up and transfer to the.

It's a lot. Well, yeah. And there and then there's the inconvenience of you not being able to do it yourself because of the limitations of what's available. I mean, I knew when we put a chairlift in, it wasn't going to solve the problem of anybody that was in a wheelchair, but the person with a cane, the person unsteady on their feet, it would help them.

And well, the thing um with the you can it depends on the wheelchair. Yeah, it does depend on the chair. Yes, it depends on the person. If they're willing, you can. Cuz that's what I do. When I roll up, you know, we get out the car, I roll up, transfer to the chair lift, I go up, they carry my chair up, and then I get off and get back in the chair, you know. But if you're not able to do that or if you have a power chair, right, nobody's lifting that up. No, no, no. The power chair is not gonna gonna work at all. No. You know, so I get that cuz when I do go on my own in my power chair and I got to transfer, I have to use the uh the big clunky hospital type wheelchair.

Oh yeah. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Those are the worst. Those are the worst. Yeah. Well, you say we we often would have one of those at church in case someone needed it. But yeah, they are the worst. They have them. They have them in the back by the nurses unit. Yeah. I have my own. I have a lightweight tile light, you know, so, you know, it's easier to pick up and lift and do all the thing and transfer and all that stuff. So, it's just yeah. Do you ever have issues with your wife helping you in gender bathrooms? Um, probably just twice. But if anything, she comes in, locks the door, and on her way out, if she sees men coming in, she says, um, my husband's in there, and I'll be, uh, right outside the door. But she knocks. I if I could see, you know, under the door, whatever. I let her know if there's anybody still in here, but she'll knock and be like, "Hello." And then when she comes in, we lock the door. But most of the bathrooms now were like family. We really always look for the family bathrooms. Yeah, that's that's that's getting better in new construction, but unfortunately, uh, churches were exempt from the disabilities act, so they do not have to upgrade and make handicap accessible. Now, I understand historic buildings and those, but everybody else that has a historic building needs to do all of those things. And I I I think I think we should do uh what is best for people, not not so much what's best for the building or cheaper, but cuz what if the handicap person wants to see the historical building?

Yeah. You know, yeah. There was there was more questions along those lines and people talking about hey what what they have um going on in their life and their struggles. And the thing is uh like in person is amazing and fantastic. We're talking about that and wanting to meet up with people but some of the barriers go down when you're in digital space of of being able to gather together. Uh some people were mentioning having cognitive differences. We're talking about some physical limitations. uh even even people that might have social uh limitations uh of not being a comfortable in in large spaces with large people, whatever whatever it is, like coming in and listening to you play music is pretty non-threatening on some level is is pretty non-threatening. It's let me just hang out and enjoy some music with you and and become part of the community. Uh, and man, if we could only make the church feel as welcoming and easy to access as just turning on Twitch and jumping in a stream and listening to gospel uh being proclaimed or or being sung uh right to people right where they are, whatever's going on in life, it's in the palm of their hand. That would just be amazing.

Oh, absolutely. Um, and that's what I that's what I love about Twitch as well, you know, cuz it's you have people come in that know God. You have people come in that don't know God. You have people come in looking for God. They see the Christian tag and they're like, "Ah, finally." You know, they see the Christian tag and they're like, "Let me go in there and see what's really real." you know, so it's just like I said, I I just wanted to make it an welcoming place cuz I know sometimes, especially for like younger people or even older people, just people in general, sometimes you just don't feel comfortable in the actual church house. You know what I mean? Yeah. It could be a little intimidating. You feel you got to be perfect. You know, you might have been to a church and been looked at or treated, you know, not nice. So now you have church hurt, you know, but I don't want to beat people in the head, but you definitely going to get something.

Like, yeah, you like you can't come in here and and just not hear Jesus. Lady. That's why we're here. Hello. I say you you you would have to really try hard to select a bunch of gospel songs that don't include Jesus. Like how you how you going to do that? Like how you gonna the the non-Jesus gospel hour? I I don't think you could do it. Yeah. Right. I mean actually you can cuz there's a lot of songs which are a little iffy to me sometimes. I mean, I like them, but there's some song that will say he, him, you know. Oh, yeah. You, but they won't say his name, you know? So, there's that. Yeah. I mean, there there some. Well, if you're not in gospel music, you might be talking about Jesus is my boyfriend kind of songs. Um, you know what I'm talking about. Yeah. The the love song vibe. Yes. Yes. Jesus is my boyfriend kind of song. It's like, okay, it sounds I know the song's supposed to be about Jesus, but it sounds like it's your boyfriend. Um, so you just say him and he instead of Jesus in the song, you know? So, but yeah, I had to re-evaluate some of the music and like yeah. How do you how do you choose the music that you play?

I I don't. Well, you you do in the sense that you limit what people can choose from. Let's play, you know, but um it's really I don't know, man. The the spirit just is really it's really just the spirit of God because like I'll hear a song and I'm like that's nice. But then I'll want to play it and then something will happen in the chat or somebody will say something or I'll be listening to one song and it'll make me think of another song or like the spirit will just be like here dot dot boom boom boom boom and then we'll just it's whatever you know it's really the spirit leads that stream for two hours. The the devotional that we read, it sets the tone for the second half because I usually play songs that relate sort of like the uh cerotic response.

Yeah. Selection. So like I would read the devotional and then whatever they're talking about, I'll play some songs that have that same theme or word or idea or whatever it is. And then maybe something will happen in the chat. Somebody will say something be like, "Ooh, let me play this song for you, you know, or this song might speak to this situation or it might speak to you personally or it's just something that would just come out of left field just like, you know, somebody might request a song and lead us on a whole another path, you know. So, like I said, I I don't, but like you said, I do because I make sure that the songs have biblical foundations like it's based in the gospel. You know what I mean? It's y mostly biblically sound. I'm going say 80%. You know what I mean? At least unless it's a song that they ripped straight out of the Bible, one of the Psalms. Oh yeah. You going to have some, you know, well, it depends on what your theology is, whether the song is sound or not sound. Because if your the if your theology is is uh, you know, rapture and you're singing I'll fly away, you're all fine with it. But if you're like, "No, that that's not in there." Uh, then you're not singing I'll fly away, you know? So, u so, yeah, your theology will make a difference on that, too. I actually had a friend in seminary that uh was a hip-hop artist, uh Deuce from um Cross Movement, and uh he was going to get his seminary degree to make sure that his lyrics were biblically sound.

And I had that same idea. Yeah. And I didn't get in. You couldn't get in? But I had that same idea. Yeah. And I think there's a level at which biblically sound is a good good place to be. I don't know that everyone needs to go to seminary to become biblically sound. I think you need to just spend a lot of time in God's word and know how to ask good questions of the text to let the text and the Holy Spirit talk to you. And you do it in community. And that's what I try to do on my stream is is those things so that hopefully if I'm not around, you can still go do all of those things with other people.

That's why I love your stream so much. Yeah.

Why, you know, I keep going over there. I'm like, this dude is just talking about the Bible. Like, like we having the most relaxed Bible study ever. Like that dude got jokes. It's like this is cool. You know what I mean?

So, yeah, definitely. And I like the way you do it. And it's true. Which is why when I did get in, I didn't lose, you know, my mind. I didn't go crazy. I was like, "Okay, because I still do Bible study in my church. I still read, right, you know, my own, you know, so it's like I'm still getting it and I'm learning. I ask, you know, the pastors and the teachers and other people, you know, questions when I have them and stuff like that." So, and you shouldn't not be able to understand the Bible because if you don't understand it, then what are you really listening?

Well, like what are you really reading?

Yeah.

Because like God isn't the author of confusion, he wants you to understand what he's saying so that you can follow his commands.

Yeah.

Wasn't that that's what you were just saying. Uh was that yesterday? You was you was like and here we go again. Follow my commands. Just keep saying it over and over and over again.

What does he want you to do? Love him and follow his commands. It's so easy.

Well, I I like to say it's simple, but it may not be easy. So,

Right. Right. You know what I mean? It's understand not easy to do.

Right. Right. Simple to understand that children can understand it and have childlike faith.

Yes. But living it out is a lifetime of progress towards being able to fully love my neighbor as myself and and love everyone the way that that God loves me.

Uh looks like we got frozen here. There we go. The last podcast I had the person had a storm and uh the neighborhood got struck by lightning and lost power.

So this is

Oh no, that's crazy.

Yeah. Yeah. So, two podcasts in a row where all of a sudden the the person with me just disappears in the middle like, "Hey, this is this is not good."

Just I froze. I heard it got uh it got choppy.

Okay.

And I was stuck. You were stuck. I was like, "Oh, no. Let me just shut this whole thing down. I don't know what's going on." But anyway, we still here.

Yeah. Hey, uh I'm watching. You want to finish your uh your joke there before we go on? Who was the greatest female financier in the Bible? And we got about ten seconds left to achieve level two hype train. Pharaoh's daughter. Oh, that's right. That's right.

Went down to Nile a little prophet. Yeah, that's funny.

Yeah, she went down to the Nile and drew out a little prophet.

Just a little prophet.

That is funny though.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um, so that's gone. The other's gone. I don't remember where we were talking before before the crash.

Um, what were we talking about, chat? Oh, the voices. I hear literal people. Accessibility. Yeah. We was talking about accessibility in the churches.

Yeah. Yeah. Uh it's it's one of the things that I well just to kind of jump back in that I'm seeing a lot of people who are addressing people in their lives what whatever it is someone in their life is dealing with that the church has not been able to fully address and they're going into digital spaces to address it for that person or on behalf of that person for other people that deal with it. So, I I know pastors that started a a digital church because their spouse had social anxiety. Uh, you know, people started an online Bible study because their their grandpa can't get out and go to church anymore, so we got to do Bible study online.

So, people are responding to needs of people and digital is is a a way that brings accessibility to people that that they don't otherwise have.

Now I know there's limitations because whenever we go overseas our ease of access of internet use and technology is greater in the west than it is in you know in India or Africa.

So it's there's always that continuing staying aware of others around you instead of focusing on yourself all the time of of what do I need? I need better. Well, frankly, I I mean, I I did upgrade my phone this year, but part of it was I was having problems, but I didn't have to upgrade to the phone I upgraded to. I could have went with a lot lower model and still got all the functions of everything I I I would use it for. So, my availability is greater than a lot of people.

There are very few places where I find myself running into limitations uh that are going to be placed on me. I mean there are some but there's not very many that I run into on a daily basis, a weekly basis. Uh finances are going to be the biggest one after that. There's not a lot.

Right. Oh no. Yeah. And now I feel you on that cuz like even when I'm going to uh different places, you know, getting hotels and like rooms like that and things, you know, you don't really have people that are thinking outside of, you know, quote unquote normal people. Yeah.

You know, so

Uh I might have to call up and ask for an accessible room. I get to the hotel, it's like a room with a with a um a a bar, a handbar.

Yeah.

Like this ain't accessible. Like we're there's a right. I tell them I need a fully wheelchair accessible, you know, open shower, all that, you know, wide room and all, you know.

So it's like a lot of times they're not really thinking too much like that, right? Um if I go out with people and they're like, "Oh, meet us at this place." I'm like, "Is it accessible?" You know, so it's like cuz I've been to places and they're like, "Yeah, it's accessible." And like it's downstairs and there's no elevator in the place, right? You might have to go up like even if it's like three or five steps, that's still steps. You know what I mean? They're not they're not going to break out a you know, a ramp or do anything like that. They're like, "Oh, well, we could lift you up." I'm like, who said I wanted to be lifted?

I just want to go in and do all my stuff. You know what I'm saying? I don't know you. I don't tr I don't trust you. You could drop me.

Yeah.

On the way up the stairs. Like I mean I've been I've been dropped before. So it's like you know you have things that you got to deal with you know and when you're you know when you need you know other people's assistance and help and things like that then you know it it becomes a little uh trying you know what I mean at times. So yeah, just creating creating, you know, more spaces that are accessible and in these digital spaces, you ain't got to worry about that. You don't have to worry about the commute. You don't have to worry about getting in and out the bill, you know, building, you know, being around people.

For those, like you said, with social anxiety, those that don't like to really be around people, us omniverts, yeah, that love being by ourselves, but if we have to, we can make we can make it in a social situation, but you know, we may or may not choose to want to, you know, all the time might not be our first choice, but you know, we going to make it do what it do.

But yeah, so being virtual is good, too, because you could, you know, come and go, you could be free and you meeting people around the world, like around the world.

Oh, the the global community is just a whole another level of awesome. I mean, it's to me it's the closest that I have seen to really feeling like I can get a picture of what the kingdom of heaven is going to be like because because I'll I'll word I'll word it this way because u my my young son when we moved from uh the Dallas suburbs to South Dakota said it incredibly well. So we he was at a a magnet school where being a white redhead he was a minority um in the school and we moved to South Dakota and he had the tour of the school and he looked around and he got where's everybody else cuz everybody there was white. He didn't understand that this community was going to be all white. He'd never experienced that in his life. It's like where's everybody else? Like they hiding all the other people that don't look like me. Where they at?

Yeah. Yeah.

And and so it was just like it was like a really funny way to say it. Where's everyone else? And if you only ever see people that look like you, you don't know there are other people that don't look like you.

Yeah.

You know, it's like there are other people globally. So yeah, when when I get to to see the different people coming in with that are wow, English as a second language is a great thing to be able I wish I was better and and fluent at language. It's like I'm not fluent. I I'm a C minus English student. So I'm never going to be amazingly fluent in languages. I mean I strive really hard to spend time in the Greek and the Hebrew.

Hebrew makes a whole lot more sense to me than Greek does. uh Greek. I could reproduce the eighty-five different case endings for every single verb, run across the verb in a word and go, "Yep, I know the root of the word means to kill, but I don't know if she got killed, he killed, she going to kill, he's going to do it later, it happened already, it's going to continuously be killed." I don't know what's happening, but I know killing's happening. That's all I can tell you. That's not helpful. You need a little bit more. And by the way, luau, they that's how you actually conjugate in Greek is you learn the word luau and you conjugate it into every ending. Lu means to kill. So I didn't just pick that randomly. That's the that's the verb that you learn uh in Hebrew or sorry in Greek to conjugate all your verbs. Like Yeah, it's great. I can reproduce a chart. The chart doesn't help me know what's happening when I read it.

Right. No, but I love that. Uh, you know, the the fact that, you know, I'm I'm streaming in from New York and then I have people in Australia and, you know, uh, the UK and Germany coming in. You know, we have a lot of Canadians, you know, I know the neighbors, you know, we got love for them, you know, France, just everywhere, you know, countries in Africa. It's just it's it's it's so dope. Uh uh you know I love it you know and when you were saying about you know believe in the the holy Catholic church you know the church universal.

Yeah.

Yeah. That's that's exactly what it is man like it's global and we're all one family and I love the fact that this platform lets us be able to you know connect with each other.

Yep. South Africa. Fluffy.

Yep.

Yep. Fluffy monster representing the uh the south tip of Africa. So I'm I'm up here in the north, not in Canada, but close. And uh you're you're the other side down there. Like we're Australia, you know, New Zealand, like you're saying that too. Like there like I never imagined in my life being able to have access to people globally like that. I mean, you know, grow up with a telephone, whatever. You don't get a lot of, you know, group calls happening on phones.

Not international, right?

Oh, no. And especially not international. You're not paying that. You're not paying that. You're not paying that. Oh, no. No. I say long distance was Well, I don't even know if it's still long distance was long distance was a thing back there. Like, is that long distance? So, imagine international.

Yeah. The the the the thing of long distance is such a weird thing. Uh compared to I have a phone in my hand and I can call Mexico and Canada and pay the same price as calling the person down the road from me. Like,

exactly.

Yeah. It doesn't it doesn't have that barrier anymore.

Not call me after six.

Yeah. Remember they had anytime anytime minutes they had the nights and weekends to begin with.

Yeah. Yeah. I was weekend free. Come on Pastio. You know what it is.

Oh yeah. Well that's Well, when I was in seminary, that's what it was.

A Sunday drive back from church is call grandma and grandpa on the phone and you're talking to grandma and grandpa and we're on the phone for a couple hours and then we're on not on the phone the rest of the week because we got nights or we got weekends free.

That was it.

Nights and weekends.

Yep.

Oh man, that was definitely be like somebody called because you get that first minute. You get that first incoming minute. So they would call be like you got 30 seconds. Say what you got to say. All right, I'll talk to you after 9.

Collect.

Well, you want back in the day when you would call collect and like put everything in your collect message. You have you have a collect call coming from this would be me. I'm at I'm going to be late for school. Can you pick me up? I said no no no. Bye.

Would you accept the charges?

No. Yeah.

Because you got the message already.

Oh yeah. Yeah. We we usually had, you know, uh shorter messages like when you got back from whatever sporting event. Hi, we're here. Pick me up. Hi, will you collect will you accept a call from Hi, I'm here. Pick me up. You know, it's like we we had it down to just say it in five seconds and and get that in there so that the operator didn't cut you off or whatever.

Yeah.

But I I think that goes to innovation that that people have of continuously striving to do things. And I think at times the church has just taken whatever was done before it and didn't think about what can we do to reach people. Like where and how can we innovate to bring the gospel to people that aren't coming to us and aren't doing it the way that we used to.

I love going to the book of Acts and and and seeing where people I think are innovating and we don't realize they're innovating because it's so familiar to us.

I mean, I like to point this out and a lot of people don't they know it but they don't pay attention. So, you have seven people that are selected as deacons. Their job is to distribute bread. The next three chapters are about how they don't distribute bread. They're distributing the bread, Jesus the bread to people who don't have the bread.

So that wasn't what they were hired to do or put into power to do, but it's what the spirit makes them and moves them into doing.

So you got Philip, I think it's yeah, Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch uh going on there. And then you've you've got uh Stephen and all of his stuff going on.

Uh it's like God moves in people to innovate them into doing new ways to reach people. Um, it's it's just fascinating and I I see that with Twitch and other digital spaces right now where God is moving in people to find new creative ways to get in front of people to bless them in just being a blessing to be present and blessing them with bringing the kingdom of God near and blessing them with bringing the word of God near.

Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. And that's the that's the move. I think um a lot of uh churches are seeing well a lot of churches that are still around that are able to see that are going to be the ones that are going to be able to make the the biggest impact.

Yeah. Yeah, because as you saw with the pandemic when you know churches had to close their doors, you know, they were they had to figure out another way.

And when they started streaming and doing all the other things and having their um Zoom Bible studies and whatever else they were doing, like you see, you're able to still reach people.

And if you take it to another level, you're able to reach people that you wouldn't normally be able to reach, you know, because like people come in my come in my channel cuz they see I'm in the DJ section, then they come in and they hear gospel music and they're like, I ain't even know I needed this today. Thank you. And I'm like, no, thank you for obeying the spirit and clicking that button coming up in here.

You know what I mean? So, you never know. Like I came in here, man, like I said, man, it was me, my two bots, and my phone.

And we're and we're still here and people, new people keep coming in and like anytime somebody's new, I'm just like, I I hope you're blessed by something, anything, and everything.

You know what I mean? That happens here today. So, you know,

well, we're and even you even you're talking too about like different seasons of things.

So there was a season where you were at 5:00 a.m. and a season where you were at 6:00 and and there's other people that have different seasons of their life.

So there might be people coming in for a season of of listening to it right when they need it and then they move on to some other place.

Absolutely.

Uh you know life schedule gets in the way other things um uh or they now get compelled to go and do likewise and so now rather than being fed they're out feeding more people.

Exactly. Yeah. And I love it. You know what I'm saying? Because we're we are called to be able to, you know, make disciples, right?

Right.

Of all natures. We're supposed to be able to make uh disciples who can make disciples who can make disciples who can make disciples who can make disciples.