BETA06: How Can I Help Leadership See Bigger, Bolder Ideas?

All right, hey, we're here at the Beta Show, episode six. Here Jeffrey with the Church Digital on Stadium Church Planning, of course, joined once again by Ray the Armist over at Christ Fellowship Miami, digital pastor. Ray's promoting the shirt, getting the word out. Definitely looking good there, Ray. Any thoughts today on this beautiful Wednesday afternoon on the live stream?

I can't tell you, man. We are doing everything we can to speed up ending 2020. Christmas gear is going up before Thanksgiving. You know, we're already doing our New Year's countdown in the Diarma's household. I'm pretty sure that by Friday we'll be counting down 2021. So the future is here, my friends. We are already there. That's a beautiful thing.

Listen, 2020, you know, there's a scary thought. I don't want to get stuck here, but what if 2020 is not the bad year? What if 2020 is just the beginning of a bad decade? I don't necessarily want to like get stuck on that, but it's a reality of, hey, let's really hope that 2021 can turn the corner here for us. But, uh, seven years, guys. Seven years. For all of our eschatology folks, what is happening? What is happening?

Well played. So that, like I said, is a completely separate conversation here. Hey, listen, with the Beta Show, we answer your questions. Online ministry, church online, digital church, digital only expressions in church digital church. If you're doing an online ministry, you got questions on it. Where's your leadership getting stuck? Where are you getting stuck? We want to help answer that. Text us these questions at For the Church. 748-432-4872-4. Literally take out your phone, text us. Unless you're watching on your phone, and then wait till after the show and then text us your questions. 748-432-4872-4.

Well, this is episode six. We've been rolling through this. We're having a lot of fun with it here. In this episode, here's the question basically that we're asking: How can I help leadership see bigger, bolder ideas? And I hear this. This is a recurring question, at least that I'm engaging with for practical. This is the question that was texted into us. Feels like our leadership is falling in love with our old ways. It's familiar, it's easy, and it's safe. How do I get my ministry leaders and leadership team on board with bigger and bolder ideas?

And so there's a lot to unpack there. Ray, just kind of walking into this, man, what are you thinking about this?

Um, I think that this is something, you know, this question needs to be unpacked in so many different ways because different people are asking this in different organizations, not even realizing and not giving their leadership enough credit in terms of how much they may have pivoted in 2020. Like, it's really easy to just look ahead and say, man, my leadership is trying to run away from new ideas, not even realizing like how much things that they may have already shifted in 2020. And so before we go back in on, on, hey, man, we want to innovate, we want to move forward, let's take a moment and even in your own leadership, like acknowledge the changes that your leadership has been willing to make in the pivoting that they've done this year because I guarantee you every leader is dealing with pressure in terms of the unknown and the uncertainty that they've had to deal with 2020. So before we go criticizing our leaders, let's also celebrate the pivoting and the adjustments that they've made this year because I guarantee you, especially for those of us that are in like an online ministry, like we're always trying to push innovation, we're always trying to push what's new, but let's also take a moment and celebrate the innovation that they've done too, right, Jeff?

I mean, let's be real. It's been a year of change. Yeah, very well said. Every playbook, every training session, every learning that your leaders understood up until March 2020 was teaching towards a different direction, and it's all trash at this point. Every playbook, every strategy, everything needs to get revisited. And people, some people are processing that well. To be honest, some people are struggling through this season.

And so, and really, like, this gets us here to point one that I wanted to acknowledge here: recognize where your leadership is. That may not be hard. But then the next step of why they are there. Don't just look at your leadership as saying they're not this, but start to unpack why are they taking the stance, the position that they are? And the more that you can understand not only the who they are but why they are that way, it gives opportunities to engage with them to try to get there.

So, Ray, you know, just what experiences have you had in your ministry life where you know not only are you recognizing kind of like where, but also helping leadership understand or recognizing why the leadership is the way they are?

Yeah, you know, um, this kind of brings me back to an old maxim that I had heard back in the day: when people don't know what to do, they do what they know. And when you have so much success doing something a certain way and everything has to shift, and then things just kind of come back to what we may be considering normal, of course it's easy to want to run back to what was. And mind you, that is not unique to church. I mean, let me help you understand that that is not unique to our way of life or to our little part of the world. That's in business. That's in so many different areas. And for some of you, that's even your households, right? Like, we're having a hard time navigating Thanksgiving right now with 2020 and with COVID because, man, we want to run back to our traditional Thanksgiving, but we're recognizing we're all hurting in the sense of, but what if we can't? And how can we protect the most vulnerable among us? And doing that, and so we have to recognize that, yeah, there's a lot of shifts, and we have to recognize we have to. This could require some open and honest conversations with leadership and just ask, okay, so you guys were used to the old way of doing this. What is it about the old way that makes it seem so successful? And it's not that I'm trying to win you to a new way, but you have to remember that it's all about the mission and vision of the church. It's not just about the mission and vision of online and digital. This is where the whole physical thing comes into play, right, Jeff?

And this is where we talk about making sure that your online campus, so that your online ministry isn't separate and that you're trying to go so far different from what the church as a whole is trying to do. You have to be alignment in terms of where your leadership is. So if they're trying to retreat back to what was, recognize that it's probably because there was some kind of comfort or something in that. I know that there were areas where we tried to run back. You know, as soon as we reopened, we were like, oh, man, we need to run back to some different way, some ways that we used to do things. And even it took some time and recognizing, oh, wait a minute, we're not there anymore. We're not there anymore. And our leadership took a long pause and they said, hey, look, you know what? We're not there anymore. We need to make sure that we go back and we reassess and we even retool and think through what does it mean to minister into the here and now? Things like, hey, so you know, coming up this week we're going to be doing our typical Thanksgiving serve. Oh, but not as many people are ready and willing to serve. So what can we do to meet some of those needs and to engage people where they're at? Those are things that we have to stop, reassess, and retool and rethink instead of running back to what was because that was comfortable and think about what we're moving forward.

Jeff, what are some things that you're seeing from different churches out there?

Yeah, understanding that that why is crucial because there's a reason they're thinking that way. You know, it's the church may. The leader may not understand the role of digital. He may be looking at the staff structure that's in place and saying we don't have the personnel to go down this way. There may be a bias of someone else that's in leadership or an elder board or a high level donor who has a bias and an over stressing towards a physical engagement instead of a digital. And so there's lots of, you know, sometimes we're getting into like the political nature of church. Sometimes it's just, hey, I don't really understand this digital thing, and I'm not comfortable as a leader showing weakness in learning something different. I really want to operate in my strengths, and therefore we all need to be operating in this physical space.

And so there's a why that's centered around it. And oftentimes when I have these conversations, right, to your question with other churches, it's the leader needs help in understanding it, but oftentimes isn't comfortable asking those questions, isn't comfortable being transparent, isn't comfortable being vulnerable. Even to the point, and so this is why for you listening audience out there, people who are at that level, understanding the why—why your leader is thinking the way that he is—which really gets into the second part: figuring out how your different ideas or the ideas that you're pushing for can help solve the problems, can help accomplish the mission, the vision, need to be integrated into the strategy of your church.

Don't just push a good idea because it's great. Hey, listen, if you're a physical church out there, you don't have an online presence, and your solution is, hey, I think we should start broadcasting on Twitch, um, yeah, that's probably not going to help the mission and vision. It's a great idea, and there's a win towards it, but it's not aligning with the mission and vision probably of what your church is doing. And so mirror and mold what you're doing with what the problems and the issues that your leaders are facing, right?

What are you thinking?

Yeah, well, it's that, and let's be honest, Jeff. Influence comes with small wins stacked up one on top of the other. And so you have to go back and reassess your own leadership and ask yourself, well, how am I coming through on the things that I'm being asked before I bring my leadership a whole lot of innovation? It's one thing to say, hey, look, like, we want to get all this stuff in line, we want to get all these new details in line, we want to be on Twitch, we want to be on, you know, name it, whatever kind of innovation you're trying to push, man, we want a live stream, we want to do something else. But your leadership has asked you to come through on some basic things like, hey, is our message archive up online? You know, have we made sure that we're organized, that things are up to date, things are looking nice? Or, hey, like, they're spelling errors on the website, you know, like, and you're over that? Are you making sure and coming through on some of those basic procedures before you go and bring some grandiose idea? Because if you're not executing in the simple, or to put in a spiritual way, if you're not stewarding the small, how can you be trusted with much more, right?

And so this is where we have to be careful because as innovators, sometimes many folks are trying to push what's new, what's next on leadership. The leadership is still back here like, all right, but man, how can I trust you with that if we're still trying to get some of the basics? Now, from what they may perceive, what they may perceive as the basics. And to you, especially if you're, you know, a reckless creator in the sense of, man, I just want to break stuff and I want to try new things, that doesn't sound too sexy to you because, man, that's maintenance.

But I'm talking about leading down a new front, okay? But your leader may need you to go back and help solve some of those problems. Exactly what Jeff's talking about. Solve some of those issues that they're saying. Like you may want to innovate in a specific area, but they're still trying to figure out, "Hey, but we're still trying to transition people to online giving. How are you helping us with that area?" See, I saw Jeff smile real big right there. I know I—yeah, I must have tweaked something there. Go ahead.

Well, and it really does come down to understanding. This is part of it. Understanding where the leadership is. "Leading from the Second Chair" was a book I don't know, I read a decade ago, but it talks about get the wins that you want, but to do that you have to give the ones that your leadership wants. And so like, if the challenge is online giving, how can online groups reinforce online giving? How can streaming online? How can online discipleship reinforce this? Change the way that you're pitching this in such a way that it meets the needs of where leadership is. By the way, Chuck Frady comments in through Facebook. Love this modern technology thing. He says, "I fully agree. Meet them where they're at and how to help them move into a place of understanding." And so like, listen, I've been the guy—thanks, Chuck, for that—I've been the guy over the years that just like with a sledgehammer tries to bang in ideas. I'm always the bleeding edge tech guy. I'm always talking about the thing out of left field. And so lots of times people don't understand that. And there have been seasons in my life where I just keep hammering the same nail over and over again, thinking that it's gonna work. And you know what? At the end of the day, it really doesn't work when you acknowledge where the people are and change the approach that way. That's where you really start to see engagement. When you talk to them, when you engage with them, it's honestly the whole two-way engagement thing versus a one-way, just kind of talking at them approach.

Yeah, you know, Jeff, and this is kind of it takes me back in time to when Steve Jobs unveiled the iPad before his passing. He talked about how the iPhone was setting up for that moment, you know? And I remember that because they had to get that so right in order to help transition people over. It had to be a way that wasn't just innovative, but it had to work. It had to work in every facet. It had to execute on the simple. It had to be a phone that you could use, and then it could become so much more. And so the same thing for us. Hey, innovation is wonderful, but you have to execute on what it is that you're promising. You have to be able to tell people, "Hey, look, we're creating something simple. We're going to come through on it, and then from there we're going to innovate and we're going to build on those wins."

Definitely. And if you're Steve Jobs, you can execute. It's okay. Hey, listen to this up front. And if you're Steve Jobs, maybe this doesn't apply to you. I'm sorry, no offense. The majority of you out there are not Steve Jobs. Doing this well, figuring out how to speak to leaders, figuring out where the leaders, where their whys are, doing it takes more than one person. Dialogue with other people on your staff, high-level volunteers, and also be willing to reshape the idea. Don't come in once again trying to fit the square peg into the round hole. Recognize it's a round hole and treat it more like clay. Treat the idea more like fluid to massage it to get to where that accomplishes what the leaders are looking for and also accomplishes what you're trying to achieve through it. Find ways to work together in this, which is true. Go ahead, anything else?

Yeah, and it's not about getting a higher position at the table. I need to be sure and kind of state this because so often when people feel like, "Oh man, my ideas aren't being heard," or "You know, we're not innovating the way that I want," it's not necessarily that you need a higher position at the table. It's that you need to expand your influence with the people that are there making those decisions. You need to make sure that they see that your wins are their wins and that it's all of us winning together. And so this isn't about, "Oh man, I need more political power within the organization." It's about, "Are you leveraging the influence that you have, and are you growing in that influence one win at a time?"

Totally and completely. Be willing to be wrong. Once again, if you're being transparent, you're bringing other people into the conversations, be willing to be wrong. Maybe that square peg just does not need to fit into that round hole. But also be willing to make others the hero of the situation. And it's funny with that humility, with that relational leadership approach, you'll find that others will get more on board with ideas in the weeks and the months and the years ahead. If all you are is the grumpy guy who's screaming about the bleeding edge tech, you're never gonna get there. But if you're part of a team that's working towards something, and if you're making others the hero, and that operating in humility, my gosh, you're going to see such a difference in pushing those ideas forward, right? You had something else?

Yeah, and part of being willing to be wrong is admitting when you are wrong. And so you have to make sure and have the humility that, hey, if you lead on a project and it doesn't work out, or if it doesn't work out the way that it was intended—obviously you don't want to over-promise and under-deliver—but if you projected something and if it doesn't come through in that kind of way, you have to be that. You have to be humble and go back to your leadership and say, "Hey, I know that we thought it was going to do this. You may have had data saying that it was going to be the biggest thing, you know, since sliced bread, but the execution just didn't come through, okay? Be humble, admit it, and own it, because that is once again how you grow in your leadership and how you grow your influence. Is when you can actually admit that you're wrong and not just move on to the next thing and act like that thing didn't exist."

Yeah, and part of making sure that you don't go wrong is this next slide right here. Experiment, iterate. Fire the BBs before you get to the bullets. Fire the bullets before you get to the bombs. Like, grow the thing slowly. So often, especially in this COVID season, it's easy to look at scenarios and say, "The end of the world is here. We have to pivot everything. We've got to burn our buildings. We've got to go 100 percent digital. We've got it." And you live in this world of extremes because right now in 2020 fall, it's an extreme world that we live in. But I want to challenge you guys, pump the brakes, slow down, iterate, experiment with something. Did it work? Did it not work? And what's happening is not only are you fine-tuning the idea of what you're trying to achieve to make sure that it'll work by iterating, by firing the BBs before bullets, you're building culture. Because at the end of the day, you can have all the technology that you want. You can have all the functionality that you want. But if you don't have a church culture that's supporting it, that is understanding it, that's utilizing it effectively out there with the people they're engaging with, without that culture, the idea is gonna die. And so by going slowly, by taking leadership, by taking your staff, by taking volunteers through these experiments and letting them speak into it, by firing the BB before the bullet, you're going to find that you're changing and developing the culture as well as fine-tuning the ideas on this.

Yeah, and you know, this is where it gets tough, right? Because so many times people are thinking about bombs. They're thinking about full-blown, full-scale measures. They're going to cost a lot of money in this kind of thing. But what if for once you thought through how tech could save your organization money as opposed to spending a lot more money? You know, for us coming back from COVID, and you know, we had an opportunity to really hone in—we're a note-taking church here at Christ Fellowship, and the thought process pre-COVID of getting rid of the written worship folder was scary because that was something that was very, very difficult to move. But with COVID and play, we had already established a note-taking section within the app that was already robust, that was already working fine, so that it was already kind of firing the BB while we were closed. And that we got people used to doing this so that when we reopened, guess what? We can't hand out physical worship folders anymore anyways. So now the cost of printing, we're saving our organization money on that end. And at the same time, we're able to help transition this out, and we've got a great reason as to why we can't hand those things out either. Now on one side, we're saving the church a lot of printing costs, and I hope that our church, you know, our church recognizes that on one end because guess what? Printing those worship folders out week to week, some of you are probably thinking that like you're either doing that yourself or you're going through a service that costs a lot of money versus the one-time cost of the app that we just, you know, encourage people to download every week. They can engage in so many different ways on our church, but at the same time they can take those notes, they can save them, they can share them with a friend. It's digital. They can go back to them instead of losing those worship folders week to week. It's a better option. But it took firing the BB during COVID to make sure that by the time we got to the bomb when we reopened, it was fine. And thank God it was very, very good with that.

So experiment, find, and even things, you know, short of a COVID, a global epic or a pandemic, um, getting rid of the worship folders at Christ Fellowship Miami would have been very hard to do. So there are things that you can wipe with a big slate and blame the global pandemic for it. But there are probably some things that it's like, "Hey, I need to, we need to do a trial run on this. Um, let's try doing the mobile app thing, but let's just try it on one campus. Or hey, let's, you know, for a couple services, let's just not print the worship folders and see what happens, what the feedback is, try to figure out once again." The show is called Beta. We need to figure out how to beta the ideas that you're wanting to do. What are small, simple approaches that can give you a basic amount of information, feedback from people that will allow you to make a decision to iterate and figure out what the next step is? So definitely love this idea of betaing, of experimenting, of wrestling with this stuff within the churches that you are there. There's no idea that's too bold in 2020 that your church should not consider. But if the first step is, "We need to blow up, we need to bring in the bombs, we got to explode this thing, and we need to rebuild it from scratch," leadership ain't buying that. If it's, "Hey man, here's an experiment. Let's try this. Here's a little bit of money. Here's a little bit of personnel. Here's a little bit of volunteer support. Here's the plan. And now you're iterating slowly on those ideas," that's how a church wins. That's how a church changes culture here in mid-post-COVID 2020. And so I would challenge all of you out there, I think that's really the challenge we should look at.

So hey, Rey, as we're landing the plane, um, any anything on your end? Absolutely. Leadership is not the enemy in this, and I just want to make sure that that's understood. You know, it's very easy for people to draw lines when they want to innovate like it's an us versus them kind of thing. Listen, it's a team. It's a together thing. And so make sure and work with your leadership as best as possible. And granted, you know, the greatest technology innovations may not come from the church anytime soon. That might not be our job, but it can be our job to leverage them for the purpose of what? For creating community. And the way that that happens is first with the community of your collective leadership. You've got to win them over within community, and then slowly build on stuff.

Last time we have, we heavily publicized Craig Rochelle's leadership podcast. Jessica did a deal about leading up. Let me encourage you once again, if you've not checked out that episode, you need to check that out, simply because you need to understand that your leadership needs you to lead up. That's why they brought you in there. You are there to lead up. I'm here at Christ Fellowship to lead up in digital, all right? Is it always going to be 100 percent accepted or as a win? Absolutely not. Have I had room to fail? Yeah, I have. And so this is where it's my responsibility, it's your responsibility to stack one win at a time, but to do it together with leadership, not to rebel and go off into my own corner and do it separately.

Very true. It's it's working together as a team, and it's breaking down some of those departmental organizational silos that you guys may have within the church. Working together as a team, casting vision, and then attacking it with that approach, being flexible all along the way. So well said. Hey, listen, we're gonna wrap here. If you've got questions, text us 484-324-8724. Be sure to check out Beta Episode Five as Ray was talking about. But hey, we're gonna, 2020 is crazy, right? Like, it's been an insane year. It's been nuts. So we're gonna pivot a little bit here next week. We're not Beta. We're we're debuting Cray. So it's crazy similar format, but at the end of the deal, we're talking about crazy, crazy things because listen, we need a break at the end of this. We need to figure out Craig. We need to figure out how to be crazy, relax, have a little fun. So we're bringing in some guys, Ray. We're going to be joined by Andy Mage, Mark Brandt, some digital pastors around the country for Creo One. We are figuring out what the perfect Thanksgiving dinner is. So heading into the turkey holiday here, sorry if you're in another country, here in America we're debuting turkey and celebrating that next Thursday. So the Wednesday heading into it, turkey day eve, the perfect Thanksgiving dinner broadcast live here. Yeah, cause I need a break, and so do you. So hey, uh, Jeff, uh, for Ray, this is Jeff with the Church Digital Stadium Church Planning. Thanks for being here, and we'll see you next time here on, well, I guess Cray. Have a good one. I'm crying. Bye, concrete. Bye.