BETA14: Six Tips Towards Marketing Easter

Hey, we're going to get you to that podcast in one second, but before we get there, I, Jeff Reed, the Church Digital, Stadia Church Planning, I wanted to have a conversation with you, churches that are out there. One of the greatest things I arguably think that I've done in my life, other than married and kids, okay, that aside, one of the greatest ministry things I've ever done is this idea of the fidgetal learning communities that we are offering through Stadia Church Planning. We want to help you, we want to help your church learn to thrive, grow, and multiply fidgetally, physically, as well as digitally. We've seen about 200 churches go through this already, and it's been a phenomenal result of it.

Culture is changing within these churches. They're understanding what it is to thrive. They're understanding how to grow people, how to grow their church, even in the midst of this COVID, not COVID, wherever we are in the season. And they're even starting to understand what it means to multiply in fidgetal space. There's no secret sauce to doing a digital strategy. There's no secret sauce to doing a fidgetal strategy. There's no secret sauce to making your church thrive, grow, and multiply. It takes work. I'm not going to lie. But through the framework, through the questions, through the learning communities, we connect you with churches. We give you some content. We coach you along the way to help you make the decisions that you need to make so that your church's strategy can thrive, grow, and multiply your church along the way.

This is a great opportunity for your church. We would love to have you be a part of it. For more information, check out StadiaChurchPlanning.org slash fidgetal. StadiaChurchPlanning.org slash fidgetal. P-H-Y-G-I-T-A-L. All right. Hey, that's it. We're going to get you back to that episode right now. Hey, welcome to The Beta Show, episode 14. I'm Jeff with The Church Digital Podcast and Stadia Church Planning. It's a pleasure to have you all join us today. We normally do The Beta Show live. I want to openly say up front, we're not recording this live. This is SimLive. We are faking out the internet. I'm recording this a week earlier due to some scheduling conflicts. Sorry we're not able to jump, but looking forward to engaging and talking with you guys in the chat and other places as well.

So still, engage in the chat. Give us those comments. Let us know how you're thinking with this. We've got a great topic squared away today here with episode 14, Marketing Easter. It is 46, 45, 44 days away until Easter. And if you're not rolling in that Easter plan, well, you need to start rolling in that Easter plan. And so we've got a great show here today talking about some practical tips, some application points for how you can start marketing Easter. But before we get there, hey, I want to clue you in on a couple of things. Here with The Beta Show, we really answer your online ministry questions. Yes, Marketing Easter is an online ministry question. Just roll with it. Text in future questions, 484-324-8724.

You've got a question on online ministry, something your ministry is stuck in, a lid, a ceiling, a problem, an issue, something you need help kind of resolving. We here at the Church Digital want to help you with this. This is literally my cell phone, by the way. So you can call me right now. It's not going to ring because like I said, this is SimLive, but you can get me at 484-324-8724. And I also want to give you a tip on this. Our Stadia Innovation Meetup is happening Tuesday, March 16th from 12 to 4. We're going to be focusing on Fidgetal. Now, Stadia, and one of the things I love about Stadia is they're a very innovative, forward-thinking organization. Some of the things they're doing with multimodal models of church planning, micro locations, house churches, digital-only expressions of church.

Fidgetal is just one of the massive amount of things they're working on. And we're going to be talking a lot about Fidgetal and how churches can develop that digital and physical strategy, that digital strategy coming up here on March 16th. It's a free event, free online conference. Go to stadiachurchplanning.org slash meetup. All right. So commercial's over. Let's kind of segue in here. We're bringing in Ray D'Armis, digital pastor, Christ Fellowship Miami once again. Hey, Ray, how's it going? So good, so excited for Easter, and yet so terrified. I can't believe we are just a little bit over a month away as we continue to just trudge on through 2021. And let me tell you, I know that there are a lot of churches that are probably watching this broadcast that are a bit scared right now because they haven't even begun the conversation of what's going to happen for Easter check.

Yeah, I mean, it is. I can remember nerve-wracking kind of heading into this season. We need to get talking about it. Why aren't we talking about it? There's so much stress in so other areas. Leadership doesn't have time to dive into us, but oftentimes the people that are executing, they're waiting to get those answers beforehand. Or maybe even in this COVID season, things are so different. You were having to do this digital Easter. Easter 2020 wasn't digital. It was digital only. There was no physical. This is really the first time that we have to do this physical and digital shared environment space. And a number of churches still aren't meeting, but a number of churches are. And so what does that tension look like?

And planning ahead, what does it even look like to really help market, to get the idea, to awareness, to people who are cold to Christ but would consider visiting? So these are lots of the practical stuff that we're going to join here in the conversation. Bringing in David Uribe, long-time friend here, UribeCreative.com. David's probably, I don't know, one of the funniest guys I know. Oh, my gosh. That may be too hard. That may be too high of a standard to set up front. So I apologize for that. But he's a solid guy when it comes towards marketing and really, honestly, blessed to have him jump here on the beta show with us. So, hey, David, welcome to the show, man. Hey, man. Thanks for having me, guys.

I appreciate it. Awesome. Looking like all smiles. I just thought I love this guy. Hey, I'm trying to think, like, so we all have come from the Christ Fellowship environment at some point. Did all three of us actually overlap at the same time or was it? Oh, yeah. Did we? Okay. My time schedules kind of don't align well, but that's good to know. Like, we all were there loving each other together at CF Miami. Awesome. Hey, so let's segue and let's get into Easter. Hey, so I want to know this. So even just to open up the conversation, what's the craziest, stupidest, wildest, most radical thing we've ever done to market or to promote Easter? Any crazy stories? Well, I have one. And actually, I was thinking about it just now.

I thought it was Easter, but it was actually a summer series. And that's the one that was a little interesting, to say the least. We called it Electric Summer. Yes! And the theme was we created this character that looked like Slash, and his name was Smash. And it was basically this dude that had a top hat and a wig that looked like Slash. And we did a whole Electric Summer, like him air guitaring and things exploding behind him. And it got a lot of laughs and a lot of fun. And then some YouTube channel that all they do is hone in on churches who are heretics, pretty much. They basically said, this church is full of heretics. Look at this. It's all about Jesus and the Bible. You don't need Slash or Smash or Trash or whatever this guy is.

So, some of the leadership asked me to take it down from the internet. So, I did, unfortunately. And I don't know that it exists anymore, any kind of digital footprint of it. But that was fun. No kidding. I didn't know it got pulled. You know, some tensions are around that. Maybe I can see that. But congratulations. You now have like a badge. I got called out by a watchdog website. I mean, anybody who really tries to do anything aggressive on the internet, at some point is going to get called out by a watchdog. Or, I guess, canceled more in today's culture. So, congratulations. Good for you, man. That's cool. Ray, any dressing up like a bunny? Anything crazy in your life? Oh, I mean, we've gotten in trouble within church for all the bunny stuff.

That's happened. Especially with me, that's happened a bunch. One of the things that we did that was pretty innovative was we actually had Good Friday service live at a university campus in a very public square. And that was something that we did that, you know, gained a lot of traffic. A lot of people, you know, came and checked it out. And it was in the middle of a liberal university. It was in the University of Miami, you know, which is a private university. We got permission through a local campus ministry to go and do it. We partnered with them. So, that was pretty cool. But one of the things that David was solely responsible to help promote this was our egg fights. And, David, I don't know if this is too much on your radar, but just by making our invites in the shape of an Easter egg, so many people, Christian, non-Christian, wanted them, that it was just really engaging.

And that kind of thing even, it lived on for a couple of years. And other churches even wanted to copy it. Yeah, that was fun. That was, yeah, we coined the name Eggvite, which is something that I'm sure you guys would appreciate here, you know, mixing in words and all that. So, Eggvite was fun. It was multi-folded design. And there was a whole campaign. Like, Egg Your City is the campaign we came up with. And so, we equipped the entire church with these eggvites and digital eggvites. And, yeah, we put them to work. We're like, hey, if you want people here, you got to invite them. So, we made it a lot of fun. Yeah, I can't remember another invite campaign that we did where we actually ran out of physical invites like that on a regular basis.

And so, what David and his team put together was really special for those Easter's. It was really good. Yeah, I'm just curious. I remember vagueness centered around that. Was it the die cut you think that was special? Was it the attention towards getting it onto the city, the training? Like, what, I don't know that I wanted to go into this conversation, but what made it so special with the impact? I think it had to do, it was kind of a perfect storm of, like, creativity and, like, equipping, right? So, like, kind of the idea of a church embracing the focus of an egg, Easter egg, is kind of like, oh, okay, what's that about, you know? And I think the goal of it was just targeted to people who don't necessarily go to church, right?

You're equipping the people who do go to the church who are really involved in it, and you're giving them the tools to invite people who don't go to the church. And so, I think when you had that mindset from the get-go, it really gave us a lot of fuel to be creative with it. And so, yeah, when you tell them to egg the city, and you create a hashtag about egg the city, and, you know, it just becomes like, oh, what's that about, you know? And I'm all about, like, you know, helping organizations, like, stand out. And I think that's something that Christ Fellowship really did is stand out during that campaign. Awesome. Love it. Hey, well, let's dig into some specifics here. We really want to dig into this idea of how to market.

What does a plan look like for a church? Maybe they haven't gotten started yet. Maybe they're struggling trying to learn how to operate in this new mid-post-COVID culture. Like, how are they marketing Easter? What does it look like to market Easter in 2021? So, David, uribecreative.com, tell me, what does it look like? Well, you know, I have a list of, like, six things that I think is important to really promote Easter well. And so I'll just dive into the first one. I think it's important to really to start early, right? So, you know, I think as early as five weeks before Easter is to start creating awareness that, hey, Easter's coming, and here are the dates. You know, like, here's our graphic for it.

You know, it doesn't have to be, you know, the designer in me says it has to be amazing. But at the very least, like, Easter at our church with the dates I think is important because it keeps it on people's radar that this is coming. So I think that's first and foremost is, you know, establish it early on because, you know, we're all busy people. We don't really remember what dates or when. But you remind people Easter's coming, oh, okay, well, I want to make sure I'm aware of that. Secondly, I think it's worth creating an Easter landing page, right? So whether this is a different site altogether or kind of really the front page of your church or some kind of branded, you know, branded page like eggthecity.com, like, you know, like what we did.

I think it's great to be able to, like, point people to a specific page where they can find all the news and updates about Easter. And really, you can even, again, with the target audience in mind, people who don't necessarily go to the church, you know, you want to make it friendly for them to know what to expect and what not to expect. You know, show photos of people, you know, wearing regular clothes, if that's the culture in your church, show kids doing activities, show that it's going to be a completely online service if that's the case, you know. So I think an Easter landing page is crucial, especially this year. That's really good. David, you talked about doing it early enough. What are the channels that churches should start leveraging as early as possible?

Because I think some of them are just going to want to do a shotgun and all, you know, hey, we're going to put in our services and everything as early as possible. But that might not even be the right approach. And so what channels would you encourage them to start engaging early on? Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, if your church is strong on social, then you definitely want to start communicating it there, right? If you're strong, if you're a church that's really, you have a really dynamic in worship experience, you know, where the, let's say the announcements or some kind of messaging is up front or at the end, then definitely start capitalizing on it. And, you know, again, and the five a week mark ahead of time, I don't think you need to go crazy with it, but I think you start putting it in front of people so that they're aware that it's coming.

And as you get closer and closer, then you can go a little bit more dynamic on how you do that. Easter is typically a time where we add services as well. Good Friday, some of the, you know, some people go Holy Week, right? Like Monday, Thursday. How can we be as clear as possible with communicating that to our audience as far as what's happening Holy Week? Yeah, that's a great question. I think when people think of Holy Week or, you know, Good Friday, they kind of encompass it as part of a bigger Easter weekend, right? And so that's where I think the Easter landing page really helps set the tone for that because it helps explain like, hey, Easter is not just necessarily on Sunday. We actually have some really great experiences on Friday or leading up to it, you know, depending on how your church is sized and structured.

So I think that's why I think that landing page is really crucial because it encompasses the wholeness of that weekend. That's good. So another tip I recommend is using video, right? I think video is really powerful and everyone has, for the most part, a 4K camera in their pocket now. And so whether it's just the pastor doing, you know, a quick, hey, this is what's happening on Easter. Or if you have, you know, if you're blessed to have like a creative team that can produce any of that content, then by all means, I think video is a great way to start promoting it. And again, helping visitors, first time visitors or potential first time visitors know what to expect in the form of video. Hey, so let me ask before we get on to number four here, what, like what type of content, I'm a lead pastor, I've got an iPhone.

What, what, what am I shooting in my selfie video, myself talking about the sermon, where to park? Like what types of things would be captivating to record on video for, I'm self-run, doing my own thing. What type of information do I want to communicate via video here to market? Ray, what do you think? I'll let you kind of speak into it in your experience. Yeah, I love it when pastors share their heart. I love it when they talk about what's going to happen on the weekend. But I love it when they do that specifically through their private social media channels. You know, I think that's one of the most underutilized parts because, and this is just a pity. And David, you're, you're the marketer, you can speak better than this.

But I think people want to engage specifically with church, more with the person than with the brand all the time. And especially through social media, I think pastors have a unique opportunity to share through video what's going to happen that weekend and how people, especially specifically visitors, can be part of it. Because this is a very intimidating experience for a first time guest. Even with a holiday like Easter, inviting guests, letting them know that they'll be welcome, letting them know that this is going to be an opportunity for them to engage and that this is going to be user friendly for them, if you will. I think that's a great opportunity right there. A pastor doesn't have to break down all the theology, doesn't have to go into their entire message, but really just share their heart and say, hey, listen, you're a part of our family.

You're welcome. And that right there, I think, is enough. Just a simple invitation from the pastor. And that can be shared at multiple levels in the organization, senior level, campus pastor level, student pastors, et cetera, on down. That matters in terms of video. Thoughts on that, David? Yeah, I think if the pastor's doing a welcome video of some kind, an invitation video, it definitely should not dive deep into theology. I mean, most people, you know, people fall asleep during that portion of the sermon anyways. So, you know, you don't want to lead with that, you know. So I think it's getting the pastor to show their face, to, you know, show a smile, to know that, oh, this is what the leader of this, you know, place looks like.

And giving them the opportunity to really share what they can expect. I think that's probably the biggest mystery for people who haven't been to a church either ever or in a long time. They're not quite sure what to expect. Like, should I dress a certain way? You know, I have tattoos. Is that going to be a problem? You know, so I think if the pastor's going to speak and welcome people, I think it's a great idea. And I think just start setting the tone of what they can expect and why is this a valuable experience for them to be a part of? Right. David, within that, how can pastors be more authentic within their video? Because sometimes there's the cheesiness factor or there's the, man, you're trying too hard.

And it comes across as inauthentic in terms of what the church actually is. And so how can churches do a better job of, yes, including people and inviting them, but how can they do that through video better to be more authentic to who they are? They can do a lot of dabbing. Perfect. A lot of references of yeet. Yeet? Yeah, use your cool lingo. I'm joking, of course. You know, I think if I had to give advice to a pastor who's going to do a video, I'd say record it as if you're recording this video for your next door neighbor. Like somebody who's near you, who you've encountered in some way, you've seen, and you want them to know that you're here and they're invited over for dinner. You know, like that's kind of the approach I would say.

You don't need to get too fancy. You don't need all kinds of swooping graphics. You know, I think just be yourself and I'd say short and sweet, too. You know, let's not make it long. Like let's make it short and sweet and make it easy for somebody to want to come. That's good. It's so tough, I think, for folks to engage through video. And so I'm glad that you're lowering the barrier there. What are other ways that we can get prepared for Easter? Yeah, I think, you know, my fourth point here is the content strategy, right? So it's making sure that you've thought through the messaging and what, you know, value there is for visitors. Right. And this is reflected on that landing page. This is reflected on, you know, like an invite strategy, whether it's, you know, digital or print or fidgetal in some way.

But I think it's just it's thinking in strategic ways. And that, you know, that could be getting some of your team together or different ministries and saying, hey, here's what we want to accomplish. What what would be important to make sure is reflected in this in this Easter experience for visitors to know that's that's coming, you know. So I think it's it's thinking in those terms, strategic content. That's good. David, how much emphasis should people put on digital marketing for this Easter? Because I think that's that's a hard question for a lot of churches to navigate because we're so used to 2020 and past in terms of what we did. And there was a lot of physical marketing in regards to that.

But SEO, social media, there's there's a lot more opportunities. And can we actually stretch our dollars in doing so? Yeah, that's a good question. I think, you know, the churches who've budgeted for it already, you know, I think they have in mind some things that they can do with that with those dollars specifically. But I think what every church has that is the most valuable resource is the people, the people in the pews. Right. They are ultimately your biggest promoter. And, you know, there's a bit of a deeper conversation we can save for another time. But, you know, your target audience ultimately is your biggest promoter. And that's this whole mindset of creating like a customer journey or engagement journey, rather, where, you know, if I target a specific person in the community and I am always thinking about them in the messaging of the church and the promotion of the church, then if they go through this experience, they're going to love it.

And not only are they going to love it, they're going to want to if it's done right, they're going to want to promote it for somebody else. Right. So whether or not you have a big budget, I think you can equip the people in the pews to be your best promoters. And that takes a lot of thinking up front. And that's why some of that strategic thinking is important, because how do I leverage the people who are already there to invite more people like them? Two more points, if I can kind of quickly go through them. I think the next one is social media, I think is obviously a big tool that, again, you can calendar some of this information up front. You know, like you don't have to save it for the actual days right before Easter.

You can, there's a lot of technology and tools out there like Buffer or HootSuite where you can schedule this content already in advance. And have, you know, have a person or a team available to start interacting with people on social media. So it's, you know, basically having a social media calendar with a purpose. And that speaks to some of the questions you mentioned earlier. You know, if your church is strong on Instagram, then let's plan the content for Instagram. You know, if you have a really active Facebook community, a Facebook group within your church, then, like, let's go all in on that. And you don't need to necessarily, you know, sign up for TikTok and everything, all these new things that maybe your church isn't already engaged with.

You know, let's go in on the things that they are. And, again, thinking of your target audience in mind first. That's good. How can we leverage within social media people to invite their friends? Because so often we come up with great posts, but then how do we get them to post it on their page? How do we get them to transfer that over to send it to their audience? Because they've got a whole other group of people who aren't engaged with our church that are following them. Yeah, that's a great question. I think, you know, there's two things that come to mind. Something that we've done in the past when working with churches is, again, creating, like, digital invites. You know, and these are just flat graphics, right?

These are JPEGs that look good on your phone that are easy for you to text to somebody. And it could be as simple as saying, Easter is this date, and you're invited to come with me. You know, it's kind of a personalized graphic that someone can send to another person. So that's kind of one way. And then the other thing I had in mind, which slipped my mind. Oh, gosh, I'm having that. It was the graphics, and then. He looks funny while he's trying to figure it out, though, while he's thinking about it. I had it, and I lost it. That was Sherlock Holmes. He was going to his mind palace. Read the question. He was in his mind palace. Let me try to. I think it's a good tip to remember as well, just even talking about social media, these invite cards, the digital invites, include where to find the services online as well.

Like, it's very easy to say, hey, let's, you know, we're valuing what's happening in the physical space. We really want to do physical space for Easter and kind of ignore that. And I've even heard some churches talk about ignoring the digital for Easter, you know, and it's just, there are people that are still wanting to engage in that digital space. There are people that are not comfortable coming back to the building. And so value, communicate kind of your church online information on these invites as well, both the physical ones and the digital. So definitely would advise for that. It looks like David's smiling. So what do you got, David? Okay, this is a little bit, this might be a bit uncomfortable, but I think it's just when I look at the marketplace, things that people do to create awareness and really leverage it, is you could do some kind of giveaway or some kind of promotion where you tag people on social media, right?

So Instagram, you know, and it doesn't have to be, you don't have to spend it on a giant TV or AirPod or, you know, like it can be whatever you think would be valuable to somebody who wants to be a part of it, right? You know, and it doesn't have to be high dollar, but maybe an investment of $100 or $200 on an item that somebody would actually benefit from when they came to your campus or to your church or to your online experience would be something worth giving away, right? And so it could be donated, right? So I think some kind of promotional giveaway where you tag people and let that be kind of a hook about, hey, you know, I can be a part of this promotional giveaway. And by following this account, you know, all of a sudden now I'm aware of what's happening at this church as it relates to Easter or upcoming, you know?

So I think if you embed that into your strategy, a giveaway or, you know, some kind of tagging strategy would be a promotion would be really beneficial. That's good. Awesome. And on that note, you know, I think this is a bit new, but I think it's really impactful is maybe investing in even texting tools, right? Ability for people to text in, to ask questions or to participate as part of a promotion, like some kind of poll. And by, you know, by them submitting their phone number, now they have, you have the ability to text them, you know, of course, with their permission. So I would put that, some of that information up front, but, you know, texting has a really high open rate. And so I'm not recommending you spam them, but, you know, a week or two before Easter, just remind them and point them to, point them to the right place, point them to the Easter page, point them to the church site, point them to, you know, your social channel so that they, you can really leverage the tools that you've already created to promote Easter.

And so, so I think it's, it's a, it's a really, it's a different and new way to engage people, but texting could be really, really strong to, you know, put it in front of them. Super practical, man. Love, love some, some of the insight here with some of these six tips. Um, I, I got to tell you, like for me, texting has always been a value like that inbox, the emails get, get overloaded, even like the, a lot of the Facebook messenger and stuff like that typically has great open rates. But just for me personally, like that, the texting, the SMS is the thing that I'm more likely to reply back to and engage with, with quickly. So love kind of seeing that, that on there. What else were you thinking, David?

Well, you know, I think, uh, what, something I've created on uribecreative.com slash Easter is a template for any church to use, um, for their Easter landing page. Right. So it's something that you can download for free and it'll be a guideline. It's a guideline where you can just kind of think about, Oh, okay. These are the types of information I want to show on my page. Um, things of that, that nature. So, uh, you can visit uribecreative.com slash Easter. And that template is yours for free. Awesome. Yeah. So we'll put that link, um, in the show notes, if you're on podcasts, as well as all the slides in that uribecreative.com slash Easter for that. And that's good. It's a great resource to help, you know, some of these churches that are starting out or wanting to try something different or recognizing, Hey, in this COVID season, we're going to need to make some attention, draw some attention to what's happening.

There's an opportunity to connect with people in a unique way within the area that I, that I live. And so some of these intentional steps that were, that we're talking about here have been an awesome way for churches to draw attention to what's happening within the church community, uh, during the Easter season. So loved it, man. Hey, thanks for, thanks for jumping on this. Uh, Ray, as we're, as we're landing the plane, any, any closing thoughts, any last thoughts? I really want a lot more churches to think about that last step that he gave, because a lot of us are, and it includes self-included, think about an internal texting strategy. We're not necessarily thinking about an external texting strategy, uh, to help, you know, resource our people.

And so, uh, like at CF, we've kind of honed in on our internal stuff. Like, Hey, this is how you can connect with our digital connection card or something else. What David just gave there, that nugget is worth so much in terms of leveraging that to engage outsiders and rethinking that. And so that's something that for sure, I'm going to be bringing back to our marketing team and saying, Hey, how can we do this to engage people through Easter to either drive them to an onsite or an online service? So make sure go get that wireframe product, download it today at your rebate creative.com and think about how you could use texting with outsiders as well. Boom. Love it. David, as we're wrapping up here, uh, what do you think?

Any closing thoughts? No, I think, you know, Easter, Easter is such a huge opportunity to tell the greatest story. And so, um, for people who are only somewhat familiar with, with church or Jesus, you know, um, if you promote it in a way where they can know that it's an environment where they can feel safe and they're going to benefit from it, you know, um, then that's, that's a, that's a worthy cause. So I think, you know, spend, you know, spend, spend the energy, um, spend the dollars, um, and, and make this a really, really impactful time for visitors to, um, you know, be a part of what your church is doing in the community. Yeah. And, and that actually, that was, that leads straight into, into my takeaway from this marketing is focused externally.

Like there's, there's a communication strategy to communicate to your people inside the church body, people that are comfortable with Christ and comfortable with the church. That's, that's communications internal marketing. And I think this is like on slide four of your slide deck, it's, it's external facing. And so, um, helping making sure that what you're communicating, you're thinking this person doesn't have any idea of what my church is or who Christ is. And so you're not using internal language and doing it externally. You are talking to somebody who's new to this concept and you're having to educate them in the process with, with the marketing. And so having that external language with external marketing to help people come in, uh, is an excellent plan.

And so, and your, your landing page document is, is a great resource for churches. So check that out at Easter at, excuse me, your big creative.com slash Easter. This has been an awesome time. So for, well, we're going to land the plane. We got a rat, we got a jet. So for, we got a rat. I have no, I don't even know what that means. I'm sorry for Ray. We're going to dab ourselves out for Ray. Uh, and, uh, for Uribe creative.com, David Uribe. This is Jeff at the church, digital and stadia church planning. Thanks for joining us today. And we'll see you next time here at the beta show. Y'all have a good day.