BETA34: Questioning a Social Media Church

All right, hey, welcome to the Beta Show. I'm Jeff with the Church Digital Podcast. As always, powered by Stadia Church Planting, we're going to be diving into a little bit here with Stadia in this broadcast. But here with the Beta Show, we want to answer your digital ministry questions live here on the show.

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Next week—and I, it took everything within me not to just ditch the entire plan and do this like right now—what can the church learn from Disney Plus, MCU, and executive producer Kevin Feige? It was about 3 a.m., up 4 a.m. I'm not gonna lie. I had watched Loki for the third time in 24 hours, the finale. It was incredible. It's great, good stuff. Couldn't sleep last night, and I had this idea. I was like, "Ooh, totally want to talk about that." But that would be spoiler-ridden, so I'm not going to do it this week. Next Thursday: what can the church learn from Kevin Feige? Some really, really interesting stuff coming forward in that one.

But here, let's talk about where we're gonna be here for this episode: social media church. This is a topic—a church that fully functions, that fully works in social media. I did a talk on this at Social Media Church Conference. Literally, I think it ran Monday, so it's still out there. Go to socialmedia.church. The full talk still may be available. Nils Smith is over there, and so who's been on the podcast several times. And so if you want to harass Nils, "Hey, Nils, Jeff is doing a little snippet of this much larger talk on being a social media church. How can he watch? How can people watch the full talk that Jeff did? Because Jeff really wants everybody to see that?" I have no idea if he's making it on demand or not, but I'm just going to give you a little piece of it here with Beta 34 here: "Who needs a building? Questioning a social media church."

And it's interesting. Just even yesterday, I put a post out on my personal social media feed talking about, "Hey, I'm doing this live broadcast: 'You need a building? Questioning the ecclesiology of a social media church.'" And there was a little—I don't call it a war, but a little disagreement on my social media, on my personal social media channel, between a pastor friend of mine who I probably haven't seen in 20 years, as well as a friend of mine that I've been working with in digital church stuff who I've never met in physical space. It's all been digital, as a matter of fact. He's in Africa. So a personal friend of mine, 20 years ago in Africa—it reads this comment about our personal friend of mine, 20 years ago, reads this comment about questioning a social media church, and he says things like, "Jeff, you can't do church on social media. It's not the same."

And so, and that was—that's a mindset. Now, it's an older pastor friend. The guy was—that was a—I was—I mentored me in many stretches. And so loved the influence and loved this pastor friend. But he's not viewing community in the same context as my friend who's in Africa, who is connected through me and connected with others in digital community. They have completely different views, and they started like getting into this little slap fight on my Facebook channel. It was really kind of funny to watch, just kind of afar, to see how it was going to boil out.

Here's what I would say: Facebook church, or any digital church for that matter, anything that we're doing in digital space, is not for everyone. My pastor friend, 20 years ago, that I—he was a mentor in my life—yeah, you know what? Digital church is probably not for you. You're not connecting into that. And what's hard when we're talking about digital church and social media church is a lot of the decision makers are of that age that aren't being influenced by digital community and aren't really understanding how digital community works. And so it's not that uncommon to hear negative coming from leaders because they don't even understand really the context of what digital community is. All they know is it's not the same.

And the frustrating part of that conversation is, at this point, even pre-COVID, 25 percent of Americans are attending some representation of a physical church. The number had dropped all the way down to 25 percent. This is pre-COVID physical church. It's safe to say, evidently, isn't for everyone either. And so maybe, while we're trying to do the same thing and get back to what was, which was only effective for one out of four Americans—I'm not even talking global scale here—oh my gosh, maybe it is time to do something different to try to reach that other percentage.

So let's do this. Let's dig in here. Acts 2, you know what? I was going to—I was supposed to prep this early. You're going to see me kind of fly here because I want to read Acts 2, specifically 42-47, and I was supposed to get that up on my Bible app in advance and did not. So this is a sword drill back from like the old school elementary: how quick can Jeff get to Acts 2:42 and 47 via his iPhone app?

All right, found it. Done. Here we go. Here's the scripture I want to read to you guys. Acts 2:42-47:

"They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. Everyone was filled with awe at the many wonders and signs performed by the apostles. All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to the number daily those who were being saved."

So the question that I'm asking here is: we've read through just here, Acts 2:42-47. It's basically the basic description of what a church is—the first church, Acts church, the beginning of the church, the building of the church. This is really the first time that there's a synopsis for what a church functions or what we would say the ecclesiology of a church is.

They're using phrases here like baptism, like prayer, like making disciples, love, worship, praise, Lord's Supper, generous. They're being giving. There's apostles. They're teaching of the word. They're growing leaders. There's devotion. There's repenting of sins. So according to the biblical standard, when we look at what the church is out of Acts 2, we would turn around and say, "Okay, we need to do all those in the physical space." And to some level, some things are better than others. The physical church is doing these things. But remember, the physical church effectively today is only reaching 25 percent of Americans. So therefore, maybe it's time to do something different.

Which is why I'm asking questions like: what would it look like to do all of this—baptism, prayer, making disciples, love, worship, praise, communion, generous giving, apostles, teaching, teaching of the word, growing leaders, devotion, repenting of sins—what would it look like to do that on Facebook? On Twitch? What would it look like to do that well? Let's keep this in social media. What it looked like to do that in social media?

How are we supposed to do all of these things digitally? Now, if I was once where you were—that guy's crazy, you know? Maybe I was in college when I was crazy. But I've been crazy the majority of my life, truth be told. And even the crazy guy, that's me, okay? Look, I'm even understanding, looking at this, you're probably asking some questions. And is this possible? How does this work? How would we do that?

Let's even start here. Question number one. These are my questions as I'm trying to figure out how to do a digital ecclesiology. These are the things that I'm stubbing my toe on, saying, "How do we get past this?"

How do we baptize people on social media? Okay, so like, I can totally imagine streaming a baptism, you know? And I myself, I've seen baptisms on video in like apartment complexes where, you know, a lay person, not even a pastor, is baptizing another person in a bathtub. Almost conquers his head in the back of the nozzle. And like, well, first off, is it okay for a lay person to baptize? Is that a thing? Or does it need to be a pastor? Does it have to be in a church building, or is it okay if it's to be in like a pool or a bathtub, something like that?

But even questions like: what happens if somebody accepts Christ that doesn't have any Christian friends and is in a different city than the church where there's no context? You know, questions like this really start to pop up.

Question number two for me: what does prayer look like on Facebook? Okay, so Facebook's got a really nice prayer feature in the groups thing, and that's nice. I'm sure you guys know what it is. If not, start a group and check out the prayer feature. It's pretty cool. But are we saying that God hears our prayers on social media? Like, we're not vocalizing our prayers, and we're not gathered together in physical space where many are gathered together. And so if we're just typing prayers, does God acknowledge our prayers? Or do we have to gather together physically to do that?

Question three: can social media be a place of love? Okay, let's be honest. Like, we've all seen the eros version of love, and social media and the internet and digital is filled with different types of sexuality. And I don't need to go down that road. But there's also another type of love where it's the echo chamber, where we love so much of who we are, we surround ourselves with friends and with sources and with content that's driven in that way, where we don't see other people's views or even other people unless they look and sound and identify exactly the way that we do.

Can social media be a place of love where it's not about eros or where it's not about echo chamber, but maybe where it's more about agape? Where it's selfless love, selfless, not selfish? Maybe it's more sacrificial. Maybe it's more unconditional. Can social media give more than it takes? That's the question.

Question number four, as we're flying through here: church services live-streamed—are we collecting followers or are we making disciples? Way before Apple even created the Newton—okay, there's a throwback for you. The Apple Newton. Google that if you don't know what that is. Jesus developed an incredible social media strategy. Jesus did. John 6. Open up the Bible. Go to your Bible. Act. Do a sword drill. Get there as quick as you can. Read it on your own time. Discover the social media strategy where it's not just about reach, but it's about engagement as well. Awesome stuff.

Question five: can TikTok create an environment for learning and teaching? You know, okay, so some of your heads may be exploding here. TikTok? Yeah, I was very intentional when I crafted...

This can TikTok created an environment for learning and teaching. What, what is now, I'm not saying sermons. I'm intentionally not saying sermons. There's nothing biblical about the sermon. There's nothing biblical about the forty-minute process of what happens with teachings when in our physical churches today. Is there a way that we can use the TikTok, TikTok structure to teach people that are engaging in a TikTok culture?

I'll be honest, and if you're on our email newsletter, just recently I sent out a TikTok link or a TikTok video that revolutionized, that changed a lot of my perception of view of the church and people. It's a very powerful video and it was by someone who was called Godless. Yeah, I'm not exaggerating here. Hit me up, text me, or she hit me on social media if you want more information on that. You didn't get the email, but there's an opportunity here to re-imagine what we're doing with the sermon, to even make it effective to reaching, to connect with people in a TikTok culture using a TikTok platform.

Remember, it's not recreating the same thing that we're doing in physical space. This is the limitation if we're looking at doing anything digital. If we just do the same thing we're doing physically, well shoot, we're just reaching those same twenty-five percent of people that are already doing physical stuff. We've that are already attending that physical church. We've got to do something different.

And here comes these questions that I'm asking. Why not? Why not do a church only on social media?

Question six. Here's another question. I'm sure some of you are wrestling with. Can social media create devotion to God, or can it just create religious consumers devoted to a brand? This is a hard one. And this is one that comes with intentionality. I believe what's the heart of the people that are driving the social media? Is it pointing towards God, or is it pointing towards self? And we'll unpack that in future.

One question seven. I love this one. Is the Holy Spirit capable of moving in our digital lives? No one is questioning whether the Holy Spirit can move in physical space. Asking the question, have we seen God move? Have we seen the Holy Spirit move in our lives digitally? Have we seen God move? Have we seen the Holy Spirit move in other people's lives digitally?

Hey, these are some questions I'm intentionally being vague because I kind of want you guys to come up with some of the answers.

The heart of this. Can a church be done through a church existing only on social media? Short answer here is yes and no. According to my friend from Africa, yes, it can certainly be done. According to my friend, twenty-year former twenty-year pastor, no, it can't be. And it really just depends on the context here. Like I said, of how they view community.

My friend, my pastor, only sees people viewed in physical community as the community that's worthy of a church. My friend in Africa views digital community as a community that's worthy of a church. What's your view? And how are you going to put this together? And more importantly, what do you think culture is open to? Where are they receptive right now here in America?

Twenty-five percent of people are engaging in physical church. That number has been dropping rapidly in recent decades. And at the heart of this, really, it's because the I think the church has been locked into a single method in a single way. And while church has evolved, and while culture has evolved, the church claiming to be the same yesterday, today, and forever, Jesus is, has not evolved. Realizing that, hey, maybe Jesus is the same, but our methods need to evolve.

It was funny. I'm just even flashing here on a Leonard Sweet quote from Soul Tsunami. This is a book from maybe twenty years ago, but talking about how there's more technology in a Casio Iron Man wristwatch. Um, this is the quotes from like nineteen nineties probably. There's more technology in a Casio Iron Man wristwatch, except, but the problem is is that the church has not changed. Any, excuse me, this is a bad quote. There's more technology in a Casio Iron Man wristwatch than the entire Apollo eleven space mission. Yet the church has not changed anything that it's done since the Apollo eleven space mission.

So over the span of twenty years, the church hasn't done anything different, yet technology has grown immensely, going from more technology in a wristwatch than how we got to the moon. Crazy, crazy stuff.

Church, here's the heart of this. Digital community does not work like physical community. So digital church is not going to work like physical church is going to work. If you're a digital planner, stop and think this. Don't recreate physical church on social media. Reimagine how the Acts two church can operate on social media. Go back to that punch list of baptism, um, care, communion, love, um, all the things that were there, the teaching, the worship, the praise, giving, producing leaders, decision-making, hit all those things up and re-imagine what that can be like on Facebook.

Look at some of the pioneers that are in this area. It's just even on Facebook. I'm talking Angela Craig, Hope City Church, Pursuit Church, Live There. There's a number of hearts like his. Dr. John Harris is one that's that's come up and at least in my attention recently. And there are plenty of others that are out there forging away, trying to get out there to recreate, to reimagine what a church would be in that digital space. And so there's a lot of options here for that.

Now, for some of you digital ministry people that are working at physical churches, let me challenge you with this. Every soul you connect with, even those beyond your church's physical reach, need to be cared for and need to be challenged spiritually. You know, so often I, and I'm having these conversations with physical churches that are doing digital ministry, they just come up with this big question mark because then with a physical church that's doing digital ministry, very often the physical ministry is feeding the digital ministry is feeding into physical. So you don't actually do discipleship. You don't do disciple-making. You don't do church in digital space. You do that in physical space. Digital is just the front door that feeds into physical.

There's really nothing wrong with that strategy as long as you put a little asterisk here and pay attention to, hey, what about those people that aren't within physical reach? What are we doing with them? Are we helping them get connected with somebody else for spiritual development, for care, for shepherding? Are we helping them find the church within their local region, or are we taking that up on in digital space? Answer that question. Pay attention to that.

And I want to challenge you. It's not as hard to help grow, develop, disciple, and care for people digitally than what you think. Oftentimes it's relationships. It's caring, and it's listening to those people at those times, and that's the heart of it.

Hey, yeah, there's been some great feedback coming in here. What kind, let me ask this. Somebody's asking this. What kind of content works best for micro church, house church setting? My gut tells me that stage shots don't work.

What's interesting in a micro, it depends upon whether you're doing video teaching or whether you know there's a micro, what I would call micro location where there's physical stream that's being broadcast in where it's not independent of a physical church. It's actually more of like a satellite extension of it. Um, and so what I would tell you is I, as a video director, the tighter the better is is my gut on that because you're able to convey more emotions facially. The stage wide shot, you're right, does doesn't do that. I tend to go either between a head to toe, a mid-thigh to top, a head, or um, you know, a chest shot up towards that, especially in the teaching that's micro location.

The other extension of the other opposite perspective of that is a micro church where it's not about what's happening on a TV screen. You're actually challenging that volunteer that's opening up their house to shepherd, to teach, to care for at a much higher level, doing things like Casey Underground would do and some things like that. So there's pros and cons. There's different levels of gray in between each, but those are kind of those extensions to look at.

Sounds like what Angela Craig's been doing, maybe yes. There's there's a lot of Angela Craig in here.

Hey, somebody's calling me out, and I didn't mean to do this. Twitch is social too. The stuff that Jade Earhart is doing, um, you know, a number of others, Matt, um, Pastor Suzy comes to mind, Mark Lutz comes to mind with Lux Digital Church. I'm sure there's a bunch there.

I love this. For me, I don't care if people call it a church or not. This is another Facebook user. I don't care if people call it a church or not. The people you should be trying to reach aren't probably looking for a church anyway. The word church probably might scare them off. Focus on what a church needs to be and do. That the name hangs, uh, both sides up far too often. That's true. I mean, it's not wrong. I'll have to look and see who that is, but that that's that's a very good word.

Um, what's interesting, even with the digital planters, it's it's digital church, or it's it's um, missionary, digital missionary, and and it's kind of been some of my advice has been use whatever word works best with the people that you're talking with. Yeah, maybe you're a digital church, or maybe you're a digital missionary that's feeding into a digital church or to a you know, physical church. Different strategies, different levels of grade.

This is why I love where we are in twenty twenty-one because it's not about a single strategy that just works and everybody's trying to copy whatever that initial strategy is. There's different layers. There's different options. There's different shades of grey. Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever. I am not watering that down. What I'm saying is that maybe there's different strategies on on how to utilize that for the kingdom and how to get Jesus in front of people and get people connected to Christ.

Ironically, amen, brother, is exactly what I have found true with those that I have been meeting and collecting into our community. So cool. Love this. It's been a great conversation here. Love some of the comments coming in. I'll be engaging with some of the contents um post, uh, post this broadcast off air, but we're gonna wrap this. Has been a great beta uh episode uh thirty-four here. Uh, who needs a building? Uh, questions on the social media church.

Look, I don't have the answers, at least not in this broadcast. Figure out how to answer these questions. Ask your own questions and start to dig through them as well. Ultimately, it realizes Stadia wants to help you, wants to help your ministry find digital purpose, whether it's digital only planting, fidget, multi-modal, co-vocational. Head over to the church dot digital for next steps on these things. And if you need help getting started, you're stuck, you don't know how to take that first step, you literally giving you my cell phone number right here on the air. Four eighty-four, three twenty-four, eighty-seven twenty-four.

Like I said, beta thirty-five. What can the church learn from Disney Plus, MCU, and or Kevin Feige? I don't know who actually should take credit for some of these ideas, but I just, I'm gonna like, I've loved some of the things that I've seen and want to tie all of this in, maybe even towards a digital expression of church next week on the beta show.

So Jeff, kind of wrapping up from the church digital, from Stadia church planting, and all the other fun stuff, thanks for being here, and we'll see you next week here at the beta show. Y'all have a good day.