EP184: Tyler Sansom & Discipleship via Mobile App

Hey, I love this episode of season two, and where we're going. Remember, it's Jeff here with the Church Digital Podcast. All of this is powered by Stadia Church Planning, and in season two we're highlighting the crazies—the people that are thinking different, the churches that are wanting to experiment, to innovate, to do something different in context of ministry and experiment with a new idea. And we've got a crazy conversation set up with you today. I don't think it's that crazy. Like in the grand scheme of thinking crazy, radical, outside of the box, this is not like John the Baptist eating locusts. This is a safe idea that if you're not really doing this in 2021, actually I think you're more of the crazy individual here, because this is not a radical idea. It's a safe idea that more churches need to buy into. And so I'm really looking forward to having this conversation with Tyler Sansom.

Now Tyler is the digital pastor—excuse me, he's the lead pastor of a digital-only church called Church Anywhere. He works in conjunction with First Capital Christian Church in Gordon, Indiana. And if I went back and looked at the number of times Tyler Sansom has been on this podcast, well, he is probably the front-runner. Jay Crandall maybe close to that, but it's either one of those two right now for a number of times being the guest here on the Church Digital Podcast. And the topic that I want to get into—this completely safe idea, not eating locusts—the thing that your church should be doing: discipling people via a mobile app.

Now, I hear you. Church Home kind of got some heat a couple years back. Wait, you want to pastor people digitally? You can't do that. Well, actually you can, and they've had success with it. And even what Tyler's talking about here—discipling people, offering discipleship, helping people grow spiritually and what that looks like via a mobile app—that's not actually that radical of an idea. And it's one that's having immense success with the churches that are doing it. And so if you think that's crazy, or if you want to figure out how to do this in your church, you need to listen to this conversation.

So once again, I'm bringing Tyler Sansom, lead pastor of Church Anywhere, and myself, Jeff, with the Church Digital and Stadia Church Planning, in a conversation that I'm simply calling "Discipleship via Mobile App."

Okay, everybody, here you go.

So hey, just to get us started here, Tyler, you know, when I was hearing the other day—we were talking—you've actually been like traveling around, doing DP, some movies. Why don't you tell us a little bit about that?

Yeah, so we did a movie as a church. It came out in 2020, and it's available on Amazon Prime as of today, actually. So that's exciting. Amazon Prime and some other cable networks picked it up, which is really cool. But we had a lot of success, a lot of life changed from that as a church. So we decided to go kind of all in on that, and my leadership has allowed me to take three months this year and learn more about filmmaking so that when our next project comes around we'll be more prepared. So I've been on three—I'll be on three movie shoots this year, all in different parts of the country, and I've been taking some of my crew from the church with me so they can learn as well. And it's been really, really awesome, really cool to get away from. I've been doing full-time ministry since I was nineteen.

So it's been cool to get on like a different environment and see how that goes.

So what's been the biggest lesson you've learned? You've been in full-time ministry, or at least church ministry, since you were nineteen. Now you're on these sets that, you know, I'm not saying they're godless, but they're not Christ-centered organizations that are happening. Like, so what are you learning in these environments?

Um, man, it's a lot more cutthroat than I imagined it would be. Um, when you watch a movie, you probably think like, man, these were like a really cohesive unit. Like the co-stars, they're great on the film, so they probably got along really well. That is not always the case. So there are definitely times where people will be fighting with each other right before cameras are rolling, and then all of a sudden they're best friends on the screen. And it's just been, it blew my mind a little bit to learn that right off the bat. It's been a good experience to get to learn how to deal with different personality types, learn how to lead through different situations. Overall, just a great experience. It's like a microcosm of leading a large church except on like a small environment where we're all kind of living together for twenty days. An indie film is really only twenty days to shoot from beginning. Then yeah, it's twenty to thirty.

Yeah, we shot this last one. We shot all of August. So okay, and so you've done two here in 2021 right now. You've got one more coming up in October, November?

Yeah, yeah. End of October through most of November, out in the wine country of California. So northwest California.

And First Capital, like you guys are looking at doing like one movie a year? Is that what I'm understanding here in the future?

Yeah, it's going to probably be like one—one year of production, then the next year will be pre-production. So the film will come out probably every two years, but we'll constantly be on the schedule of pre-production, production, and post-production.

Is there anything your church doesn't do? Like, I just, uh, a medium-sized church, I don't know. We can talk more about like what the church is in this season, but it's like, man, for a medium-sized church, you guys are doing lots of creative things with online and digital and micro and movies. Like, where does this passion come from, man?

We made the decision to really try to push people to use their passions for a kingdom purpose. So like, one of our core values of the church is that we want everyone to be a missionary, but that doesn't necessarily look like what you'd normally think of as a missionary. We want people to be able to use—like, if they're passionate about acting, let's figure out a way to get you an opportunity to use that for Jesus. And it gets messy and it gets chaotic a little bit when you empower people to do stuff, but we also start to see a lot of life change and a lot of discipleship happening. Um, and that's what we've seen through these movies. We get to baptize about twenty-five people who watched "A Father's Fight," which had been out in theaters. And now, like, last week, one of the guys we baptized—he saw that movie and accepted Jesus for the first time. He baptized two people in our service. And so all of that was just because we allowed some people to follow their passions and let God use them.

Twenty-five people got baptized as a result of "A Father's Fight" within your church, and you've already seen generations happen as a result of one guy being able to baptize two others? Man, what an exciting life change story. Like, man, there's some churches that would kill for something like that. That's maybe that's a bad analogy, but yeah, you give my heart. It's been amazing. Uh, we actually baptized the lead actor. Um, he had never been a Christian. He'd grown up around the church, but he auditioned for this role, drove from Columbus, Ohio to be part of our cast, and then after about the third day of production, he was like, "Man, there's something to this. And there's these people are different, and I want to be a part of it." And we baptize him on set, which—and now he's a part of our Church Anywhere family. So he and his family join us every week from Columbus.

Very, very cool. All right, I'm gonna geek out on one thing. I'm going to want to talk tech, and then we're going to get to the heart of the podcast. Um, so what do you shoot? What are you shooting with when you're doing the DP?

Yeah, I'm shooting with Z Cams, which are cinema cameras. Um, we're shooting with the six-K version, so they're six-K Super 35 sensors. So it's not quite full frame, but it's somewhere in between Micro Four Thirds and full frame. And then I'm shooting on Sigma cinema glass. So um, it's the top of the line kind of glass there.

Yeah, I was about to say—the Sigmas—that's the expensive word.

Yeah, they're pretty legit. Um, they weigh about fifteen pounds a lens. Um, so you have to have some serious support for them. But this last movie we got to shoot involved a lot of driving scenes—not like car chase, but just people in cars. So we had a lot of fun trying to rig up like forty pounds of camera onto cars, which was which was a blast, inside or outside, wherever you could get it to mount.

Oh yeah, very cool. Like I said, sorry about that moment over. Let's so let's get to the heart of the podcast here. Uh, man, it's so exciting to hear how your church, like First Capital, is thinking different, doing what they're doing, um, with the film, giving you freedom to explore and to learn new things, even by going out into the industry and being part of three indie movies and taking others to kind of learn from there.

One of the lessons that I want to learn from you guys specifically in this conversation really centers around what you're doing with a mobile app. And so, you know, I've always felt and have encouraged churches to the point of buying in—doing mobile app, doing digital discipleship—that the mobile app really needs to be the heart of your discipleship process. And we're missing this huge opportunity with the mobile app by just doing, you know, sermons and sermon notes and things like this. But really, there's a community aspect and the disciple-making process is such a great idea to be intertwined within the mobile app.

I know you guys, within the past six months, four months—we can drill into it—have launched this "One Step" mobile app, which really does a lot of the stuff that you and I, we've had collective conversations like this over the months as well. Um, maybe tell me a little bit. What are you guys doing with this One Step mobile app?

Yeah, so we made 2021 really about taking one step closer to Jesus. So we used some passages from the New Testament to create like a year-long sermon series, really trying to get our people to understand like, what is a disciple? And here's what we landed on: a disciple is someone who picks up their cross daily and they follow Jesus and they die to themselves. So like, that's pretty simple—how Jesus said it: deny yourself, pick up your cross daily, follow me. And so the way we branded that was we're gonna take one step closer to Jesus every day for this year.

Um, about—let's see—probably around April, we started developing an app that would be a habit former to help people do those four things. So what are some ways that we can use technology to help people build habits to where they're actually denying themselves, picking up their cross daily, and following Jesus? Um, and we came up with this One Step Closer app. Really, all it is is it's not branded for First Capital or for Church Anywhere. Like, anyone can use it, wherever they're at. Any church could pick it up, whatever. Um, it is three challenges: be like Jesus, be with Jesus, and do the things that Jesus did. And those three challenges have a different prompt every single day on the app. So it could be things like read this passage of Scripture today, or it could be pray with somebody you've never prayed for today. All of these things are designed to help you take one step closer to Jesus on a daily basis.

Within the app, there's also options to chat with people about what God is doing in your life through this app. So maybe the prompt one day could be like pay for someone's meal at a restaurant to show them the love of Jesus.

of Christ and then once you do that you could get on to the chat function and talk about how God changed you through that process. So really it's designed to be a habit builder and also a relationship builder.

How you launched, you started designing it in April you said. When did it launch? June, July, somewhere around there?

June, yeah. How's it been received so far?

It's been received really well. We are consistently having more downloads every week. We're consistently having more opens every week, which is really, really good. We've been working on getting a team together to create the prompts so that's volunteer opportunities from people within our church. That gives them an opportunity to be a part of this discipleship process, and so that's been really good. I think the biggest thing that, like in my personal life, the push notifications to remind me to do this every day—as simple as that sounds—is a huge deal. Like we got, we all had a meeting this morning at 6 a.m. and you could hear everyone's push notification go off at the same time. But that's 20 people in a room that now are reminded to take one step closer to Jesus that day, which is a big deal. If people would actually do those three things every day and take one step closer, I think our communities would start to see a lot of change.

What does—so you're developing like volunteers to help create some of the content. Has it been hard recruiting, casting vision, sharing those ideas? Do they jump on it quickly? Like talk to me a little bit about that process.

I think it really depends on who the volunteer is. If it's a really high capacity person that's kind of in the know, for lack of better language, if they're pretty invested in what we're doing as a church with the vision, then it's not hard to get them on board. But if it was somebody that just came, maybe for the first time, and wants to get involved and then doesn't know anything about who we are, it's a little bit harder.

So with like, what is your—how many people do you have on that team now currently, or what's your desired goal? What are you trying to get to right now?

So I don't lead this team. Patrick Guard, as I wish it, Pastor leads this team. But I think he's got like four on the team right now, which is good because then like you can take a week at a time kind of deal. Everything is saved into like one folder so it's easily reusable. So if we had a prompt from June or something, you might see it again in like October. It wouldn't be very repetitive that way. But we're kind of just building a database with like four people making the content.

There were times in my life where we were doing like a daily devotional that was written up and we were going through, you know, different books of the Bible with time with God when I was at Austin Ridge. But it was like just exhaustive number of volunteer writers. And then you'd have to, you know, proof it and get an editor in place to gather it together, make sure it's—and it just got so it was such a massive movement. But the idea what you're describing, you know, feels a little lighter, maybe not as grandiose, much more manageable, especially via the mobile app.

Hey, who—like was there a vendor that was involved with the mobile app? Was this like, who are you guys building this through?

Yeah, we are going through Subsplash. And they were super easy to work with. We had to like five or six times say, "This is not a church app." And then they finally got it. And then once they got it, they were like, "Oh sweet, let's help figure out ways we can make this happen."

So right off the bat, it's not a church app at all. Like if you're looking for information on First Capital, you won't find it anywhere within the app. But that's not the norm that I think people like Subsplash are aware of. They don't usually work with that type of app. But they were super easy to work with once they got the vision.

Did—it's funny, Subsplash. We've got another podcast scheduled in a couple weeks with Lee Cote, his executive pastor over at The Crossings Church. They were doing not an app similar to yours, but a non-church church app that's basically really centered around their discipleship structure. And I didn't realize both you guys were Subsplash. I think that's kind of funny.

No, this is not a commercial for Subsplash, although I really do love the corporation of Subsplash.

Did you guys have to like customize any features? Do they have to build anything custom, or is this just like out-of-the-box kind of feature set which you would normally get if you have a Subsplash app?

Yeah, there we did not do any custom build. That would have been way out of our budget. And so we kind of just took what they offered and had to figure it out. So there's still some things that I wish we could change. Like for example, post scheduling—the only way to do that is to have two clicks on the app. So like you wouldn't be able to just open the app like it is now and hit one of the prompts and see what it says. You would hit a prompt and then hit a second button, and that is the only way we can schedule a post. So right now we're having to go in every morning and actually post these things, which is like tedious after a while.

But how many clicks are you gonna get from people, you know what I mean? So you already have to get them to open the app. You don't want to go further than that. So that just some of those workarounds have just been things that we just have to do.

So what time is the post—what time does it get posted every morning?

Usually around seven, six fifty-seven, something like that.

Who gets the wake-up call? Who manages that, the 7 a.m. post?

Patrick typically will post it at like right before he goes to bed, so like at 10 at night, and then set a push notification schedule for seven. So technically the prompt for the next day is already on there about like 10 o'clock. But so the 5 a.m. people, they get the content but they don't get the notification.

I see. Right, yeah, until after the fact. Okay, that feels a little better.

So you mentioned like other churches utilizing it, you know, and through First Capital Church—anywhere like you guys have a broad spread. When you're looking at the opens, do you have any analytics on where it's getting opened? Do you have any partnerships with churches beyond like—talk to me a little bit about the spread of this thing.

Yeah, outside of just like contact by contact basis of different churches that have told us, "Hey, we're like we're trying this out," or different pastors that we've sent it to and said, "Hey, would you try this out?"—we don't have any analytics based on location. That would be one feature that I wish that was available to us because it would be really nice to see where everyone's opening it from. But we really just have like the opens, the time spent on the app, and we have like impressions on the app store, which is not really helpful for what we're trying to do, and downloads.

Well, yeah, I mean that would be nice. So other churches have they been interested in this? The ones that you've sent it to, are you seeing any traction?

We've had several youth groups that have like jumped on board. So they're using it as a collective youth group to disciple their kids and things like that. So we've had a few bites on that.

The really nice part about using a mobile app for discipleship is that it's very easy. It's a very easy next step. So I was at the gym and I don't even remember how we got into this conversation, but the trainer at the gym was talking about how they were looking for like a way to learn more about church, learn more about Jesus. But it's so overwhelming with the amount of like Bible studies that they could get or things that they could find online. And it was very easy for me to say like, "Hey, what if you had this app that just told you to do like one or two things every day that would help you get closer to Jesus?" And I like walked her through how to download it right there. That's super easy to be able to do, especially for new believers.

So readily accessible. You've got, you know, new believers to—you're describing, you know, just an opportunity to connect with different people, giving them access to this. Are there—do you—is it everybody that's on the same track? Are there multiple tracks? Do you separate like a new believer track versus something else? Like what's maybe even what's the roadmap future? What are you thinking?

Yeah, so since it's habit-forming and we're really trying to just hit those three things of doing things Jesus did, being with Jesus, and becoming like Jesus, it's really for any Christian, new or old, because all of us need to continue to form habits in our discipleship process. We all need spiritual formation. And so there's not really a like, "If you've been Christian this long you do this, and if you have been a Christian for a short amount of time you do this." It's really been a, "Here's how you can take one simple step towards Jesus today."

Why a mobile app, you know, instead of mobile website? I don't know, smoke signals? Just like why choose a mobile app for this format? A bunch of emails daily, you know, that's what I've done in the past. Why go with the mobile app tool for this?

For us, the notification was the big one. If we're really trying to form habits with people, being able to remind them on a daily basis to do these things, it was the biggest selling point for an app. Because we thought about using a Facebook group and things like that and just posting in it. But it's one thing to have a Facebook group with notification within Facebook. It's another thing to like physically get, or virtually get, a notification every morning that has the One Step Closer app logo on it that says, "Hey, if you want to be like Jesus today, do this."

So that was a big selling point. I mean, when you—it definitely gives you the opportunity to beat the algorithm of Facebook. You don't have to worry about, "Well, am I going to get—is this going to get through? Are they going to see this notification among the 400 others that you're going to see over the course of a day on Facebook?"

Well, since it's real estate that we own—I mean it's internet real estate that is owned and operated by us through Subsplash—so unless we stop paying our bills, we get control over what's on this app and who sees it and how it's seen.

Very cool, man. What's been the biggest success by doing this via mobile app? What may be—what have been some obstacles or challenges that you've overcome or are overcoming? Tell me some of the story here.

Yeah, I think some of the biggest success points have just been hearing stories of like people saying that they prayed with somebody for the first time in their life out loud. Or, well, here's a good one. We had a family who was neighbors with someone who had a kid that ran away. So the kid ran away. And while he was still gone, the neighbors that were at our church got the notification one morning, and the app challenged them to pray with someone they've never prayed with before. So they were like, "All right, God, I'll walk over to my neighbor's house that I don't know and I'm gonna pray with them because I heard their kid had run away." And so they prayed with this family, and now they have a relationship with their neighbors that they never had before. And all it was was a simple prompt that said, "Pray with somebody you've never prayed with." But God used that in a much bigger way than we ever—

Intended for it to be used and I think that's like in a nutshell what we do at Church Anywhere is that we just kind of provide tools for people to either build relationships or have experiences so that God can use them for bigger things than we imagined. I'm trying to think like SubSplash has a general rule like that's, it's not an expensive tool. Maybe, I mean in the grand scheme of things it's not free like Facebook, but do you have any, do you know off the top of your head how much this costs like monthly or annually? I believe it's gonna, it's like twenty-five hundred a year something like that. I mean yeah, that's that's costly, but in the grand scheme of what you're doing in the reach that you're able to have, like twenty-five hundred, that's two hundred a month. That's, what is that, three dollars a day? Well, to put it this way, we're right at about a thousand downloads right now, which is pretty good for three months of launch. So we're spending what, two dollars a day or two dollars per person to help them take one step closer to Jesus per year? Like when you put it in terms like that, like what, I would spend two dollars to help you follow Jesus better every day. Like I think you would do the same and many people would, so it's pretty big return on investment. Do you have within the tool itself, like is there a giving tool where people can, or I should say donation tool to donate to the cause, or you're just running it through the operations of First Capital? Yeah, we're just running it through the operations of our church. Where'd this, where'd the idea from this come from? Like what was the, you hit your head one day on a sink? Like what, who, when was this? Oh man, this is, we got to do this. Where'd it come from? Yeah, um, that's probably a much larger conversation, but we've been kicking around all these different ways to structure a discipleship plan, really since COVID hit, and like we've rethought so many things. We had this idea about aisles and using concepts and having like these metaphorical aisles where we would imagine us walking through like a store aisle and like picking things off a shelf, and each thing that we picked off a shelf would be something that we wanted our people to take out of this concept. That's kind of it's a really quick way of describing it. So if it was like a series about generosity, maybe on one of the shelves we have like a sermon series about generosity, and then on another shelf we'd have a giving opportunity where there's a specific cause to give to, and then maybe on another shelf it was like how do we get the kids involved. All of that culminated into, what if we did that on a daily basis with something that we could send notifications to people? So how do we like provide people these items off the shelves in an easily accessible way? And that's kind of where the app birth from. Very, very cool. That was like two minutes of like a nine to ten month conversation. The fast forward version, right? You know, it's hold down on the virtual VCR button. So what's next? Where are you going with this? Um, I think we're going to continue to refine our content that's on it and continue to push people to use the community function a little bit more, and that's been one of the bigger challenges, how to get people to actually talk to each other on it. We know they're using it in their personal lives. How do we get them to share it with others? And then beyond that, we'll continue to use it as part of our discipleship process here in person and online. With what we do at Church Anywhere, it's going to just become a staple of, excuse me, of who we are. This fall we're launching something called One Step Closer Together where we're actually meeting both in person and online and going through The Chosen, the web series The Chosen, and using that as like small group curriculum. So these won't be like long-term small groups, but they'll be short-term small groups, and we'll use the app for the, so like if that's a weekly gathering with The Chosen, we'll use the app as the supplementary daily content that people can talk about within those small groups. So it's all under that One Step Closer brand, but we're doing One Step Closer Together as like a gathering experience, and then using the app as the content that the small group talks through during the week. How'd you, did you like call The Chosen? Do you have a contact over there? Like how did you get connected with them? This is a crazy story. Um, they actually, Kappa Studios actually did the audio for A Father's Fight. Oh really? Yeah. So that's how we got the connection. Um, they do have something called Christian Film Finishing Funds, and it's for people who are like ministry-based filmmakers who might not have the budget of like a studio, like in the backing of a studio. And so we applied for it, and we were one of the first films that they helped out. So they have a 501c3 that people donate to, and whatever they get in donations, they'll pick a few films a year and just like donate post-production services or gear or whatever. And so they did all of our audio mixing and mastering for us for A Father's Fight, and then we just became friends with the people over there. So that's how we got the connection. That's awesome, man. That's, uh, well that helped you with A Father's Fight, and then that relationship that went on to help with The Chosen. I mean, I love some of the stuff I'm seeing from those guys and gals, I'm sure. Really, really good stuff. So hey, I'm a church that wants to do this. How do I get started? Like give me advice. Point me in the right direction. Yeah, uh, just do it. Just, um, no, I think the biggest thing that you can do is figure out where you want to go with your discipleship path. I mean, you've talked on probably twenty podcasts on discipleship paths and different strategies for discipleship, whether online or in person, but pick one and define it, and then figure out how to get your people from point A to point B or beyond. And then you will use whatever tools are necessary to make that happen. For us it was an app, which was easy to set up because people like SubSplash, but for other people it could be a Facebook group. It could be an email chain. Um, it could be Zoom meetings. Uh, whatever it is, just define where you want to go and then lead towards that. So we think, I mean, within your app, you're platform agnostic. That's been the term that I use, like between Zoom meetings and things like this. It's very, you're not, you don't care how, what tools they use to communicate as much as what they're communicating. Just that they need to communicate, right? Yeah. Find where the people are and then communicate your vision and get people on board to follow that vision, whether that's through discipleship or evangelism or outreach or whatever it is. Find out where people are. For us, um, we made the decision that we would get the most return on investment with push notifications on people's cell phones. That's why we went with an app. Um, but it could be through a Facebook group if you have like a thriving Facebook group, then use that and then push your vision through that in creative ways. Are you finding that people are, um, are the people that are using this, are they part of the physical campus as well as digital? Is it digital only? Like how are you marketing this to the people involved at First Capital and what have you seen response-wise that you can tell? I would say it's probably a really healthy mix of both. Um, based on the people that are using the chat function and people we've heard from, uh, I would say it's maybe fifty-fifty, maybe a little bit more on the digital side than the physical side. But we mention it every week during service in our physical location, and we mention it all the time online. We've run paid ads and things like that as well, especially at the beginning when we launched it. So I think it's a healthy blend of digital, which is nice. Oh, and even saying the word fidget, man, brown-nosing, scoring those points. I see you. Well, well done, sir. Jeff, you don't even know, man. Like you impacted our entire church culture with that word, and it was like at a random, I don't even, you remember the first time you said it? Me? Yeah, um, no, honestly, I remember it because we were planning out Church IT Network like three or four years ago, and you said it on a Zoom call with me, Jason Lee, um, Dave Adamson, a few of those guys. And then I remember you saying, whoa, I should coin that. That's a great word. I'm gonna use that from now on. And you did, and then we started to use it as part of our language here. So that's awesome. Well, well done. Yeah, that's been a minute since some of those Zoom calls. Yeah, I think that was Washington D.C. that year. So maybe, maybe in Kansas City. Maybe Kansas City. I don't, I wasn't involved in, maybe I wasn't. Uh, dude, I'll be honest, I mean, that was pre-COVID, was like a different era. It's almost like a different millennia. Um, I don't, I can't even keep it all straight. I was at D.C. I just don't think I was involved with leading it, at least at the level that I am now with, um, uh, what I did when I, Kansas City. But anyway, man, that's a throwback right there. And I, you know, for me it was when I heard Randy say the word fidget. I was watching one of your streams or something. He like said in the middle of a service, you know, and I was like, I got your lead pastor's Randy, right? I didn't rip on that, right? Yeah, okay. Lead pastor Randy says it from the pulpit. I was like, hey, I like that. He did that. That's pretty nice. Yeah, I see that. Um, well done. Hey, man, listen, this has been a great time talking about what you're doing here with the One Step app and the desire to help people be with Jesus, be like Jesus. And what was the third one? Do what Jesus did. And having that be the focus of the app and creating that content regularly. Um, man, we're landing the plane here. Any closing thoughts? Um, man, download. Yeah, if you're watching this or listening to it, download the app. Yeah, download the app. Be a part of it. You're part of the party. So we'll put links to the app into the show notes and The Chosen as well. I know that's another thing that was mentioned. Uh, for the nice people of SubSplash, I'll even include a link for free. So very, very cool. Love, love, love some. I've got some friends over there and they do a great job. So uh, but we're gonna wrap. We're gonna land the plane here. Uh, thanks for jumping on the Church Digital podcast. For Tyler, I'm Jeff with the Church Digital and State of Interest Planning. Thanks for joining us for this. We'll see you next time at the show, y'all. Good day.