Recovery Rewired: Breaking the Myths, Reclaiming the Mission

All right. Hey, we are ready to get going. Uh it is 12:21 Eastern my time. Uh we do have uh Conrad Cooper, the CEO, the founder of Project Exodus backstage and and all the tech is set.

Uh excited to get started and and and get going into it. Project Exodus is uh is as I said is one of our our new partners that is that is helping us really tackle our our uh recovery our recover uh ministry that we're starting up as part of care where we want to provide care opportunities for for digital missionaries literally globally. So excited about the work that they're doing on here. And so uh we're going to do a uh a video um uh in a second to show it, but I just I want to highlight here.

My gosh, I don't have you know what I what happened. Um Andy uh I'm just going to call myself out here. When uh when we did all the um all the shifting, I I some of my prompts are are gone.

And so I'll create something in a second uh a link for it. Those of you watching our Twitch are like, "What's wrong with Jeff?" My some of my links aren't working correct here in Hubalo.

But but let me do this. I'm so excited about the Project Exodus uh partnership and not only for what it means for the church digital, but what I think uh it can mean for individuals like you and and even ministries and organizations like yours.

And so uh I'm I'm happy to play for you this video introducing Project Exodus, but and then after the fact, uh, welcome Conrad Cooper from, uh, Project Exodus to the stage.

So, okay, let's take a look at that video.

Addiction and mental health challenges don't stop at destroying individual lives. Their effect spreads to families and whole communities.

And yet, most people suffer in silence. Nearly two-thirds of youth and young adults report watching pornography on a weekly basis. Over the past decade, global drug usage has surged by 23%.

And yet 90% of those who need help never receive it. Despite this grim reality, change is possible. Recovery is possible. But it requires support.

No one should do it alone. The solution can be found in the church. With its reach, infrastructure, and heart, the church is uniquely positioned to make profound and lasting difference.

As the body of Christ, we're called to take action. We've been commissioned to bring hope to the hopeless, healing to the broken, and freedom to the captives.

But many churches and organizations can feel overwhelmed and ill-equipped, unsure where to start or how to sustain recovery efforts until now.

Built on the foundation of God's word, Project Exodus is a nonprofit recovery ministry empowering your church with effective and innovative recovery strategies.

Our recovery tools are biblically based and life-giving, bringing real and lasting change. Through our web platform, Bridge and our online academy, you'll gain access to all the resources, training, and support needed to lead life-saving recovery groups and programs.

Whether addressing addiction and supporter recovery, mental health recovery, or pornography recovery, our solutions are accessible, scalable, and sustainable. Designed to meet people where they are and guide them forward.

If you have the heart to help, our step-by-step process will empower you. Previous experience is not required. Simply sign up, get certified, and launch your group.

This isn't just theory. Decades of experience inform our evidence-based strategies, empowering churches to build cultures of recovery that transform homes, neighborhoods, and entire communities.

You see, the need is urgent, and the solution starts with you. With the right tools and support, you can take action and make a difference.

Together, we can grow a culture of recovery, one person, one church, and one community at a time.

Hi guys. Uh good day or from South Africa.

Um a good evening to you. Um, from our perspective here, it's now sitting at 18:30 p.m. I'm speaking from a small town down in the south coast, um, called George and our team is also based in Durban and, um, around the country as well as in some places internationally.

But firstly, I just want to give you greetings from South Africa. Um, no, it's not as bad as it's made out to be in the States.

Um, an absolutely amazing and and beautiful countryside and we are determined to embrace change. uh and to do the things that need to be done uh to seize the kingdom.

So yeah, just a shout out to to to Jeff um and Church Digital. Amazing to work with you guys. Uh we spent some good time together.

Not nearly enough. Um at times we wish to be in person just so one can give you a good hug and a pat on the back for the work and the initiatives that you're grabbing on to.

So well done. Thank you for the honor and privilege of being here. So yeah, I'm excited to move along. So, excuse me. Uh, by God's grace, um, I've been in recovery 25 and a half years going on 26 years.

And, um, yeah, it's it's, uh, it's been a journey. It indeed has been a journey. It started off on the 2nd of January 2000 after many years caught up in addiction.

And we've all got our war stories. And, uh, there's no need to reiterate what those are. And uh I think for each of us um it's it's, uh, it's the own our own cross and our own process and each one that carries the pain um carries it uh without comparison to another.

But yeah, my journey ended up in Hillbrow getting shot and um eventually sitting in a in a crack house in a rather dangerous part of Johannesburg on the 2nd of January 2000.

Uh and I woke up desperate. I just I couldn't anymore. I'd been trying for for for years to get this thing right in and out of rehab.

um and really just couldn't manage to get myself out. And um yeah, I I cried out to God and ended up in an amazing church, Rama Church.

That Sunday morning, 2nd of January 2000, I gave my uh life to the Lord and ended up going straight back to yeah, the dodgiest part of Johannesburg that you can ever think of.

Um however, for the next 18 days, he just slammed door shut and uh blocked my way and I found myself checking into a really hardcore Christian rehabilitation center.

I thought well that that we get too easily we esteem too lightly. Um so I picked the hard way to get things done and um God did what he does best.

He just moved and shifted my life around um and um yeah the journey of restoration and the journey of healing um started that day um that I I left there and as I left the treatment center um there I will never forget that there was a picture of a m of of the sun coming up from from behind the mountain. not actually a picture of the real thing. And God spoke to me clearly and he said, "I'm needing to open a rehabilitation center." And I I debated with him like like who is this speaking to me?

I had no experience of that at that point in time. And uh yeah, I'd been in the motor industry and done well at time, but had no experience in recovery at yet at that stage.

Um so yeah, I ended up uh a short while later. um yeah being obedient and opening up a treatment center that went on to become a flagship treatment centers for Africa and internationally uh which I ran for some uh with with with some amazing people and family for 18 years and uh we we yeah we we really changed the way we wanted to do recovery and the way that we believe recovery should be done. um you know he shouted out like you know who can I send you know um and when we put our hands up to say here I am it's quite hard to pull them back down but more importantly he also goes on to say behold I'm doing a new thing can you not feel it can you not see it can you not perceive it um and I see that's what's happening here to today um on control alt delete um to see this church digital recovery initiative really taking um taking taking ground and and and really seizing the territory so yeah south coast went on to become an amazing an amazing facility that re really taught us how to do things in a in a different manner.

Um it it really brought home um go back to one. It really it really brought home a situation that a verse that I really want to like just um draw attention to that um 2 Corinthians 12:7.

And when it says that that in our weakness and his strength is perfected. It really goes on further to say that the power and authority of the grace of the creator of the universe rests upon us and in our weakness his strength is perfected.

And I just felt um really strongly today that um we we are very definitely those that are called to more and called into that space of really getting the work done.

U not just being mere spectators but really understanding that there's a whole lot of work that needs to be done um and best that we do it ourselves um with immediacy.

Cool. Um can just jump me back on to the slides. There you are. So today we we going to be speaking about this maintaining unhelpful narratives.

I'm trying to challenge the outdated strategies as he laid on my heart some 20 years ago, 25 years ago that we needing to do a new thing and create a new way that the success rates that were being demonstrated in treatment centers um internationally, not only in South Africa but um you know from systems that have been developed many many years ago that really we needed to push into the word integrate something fresh and new um and absolutely you know deliberate to to what he's doing.

So um with with uh the that process we um are also looking to see how the church can change um and understand that actually um addiction is out there not in here.

So when we say that is not in here um sorry just one second if I may please. Um great sorry my feed just jumped there a second.

Um with it with understand the addiction's not out there. It's right in here. It's with us. that's online with us. Um being online in itself um is a really present um process that we all experience to the point of asking ourselves that you know should we um take our devices or our connectivity away what kind of withdrawal symptoms would we experience? Have you in need of digital detox? So really asking those hardcore questions that in fact one in every four people are battling depression and I think those are those are conservatives sorry one in every six people I think those are conservative numbers I don't feel that that is accurate um we know certainly in South Africa that the collective trauma um is way greater than that um and that addiction um is related into all of these kind of processes so yeah I I do feel that when we look at it and we're starting to understand that it goes further than substance abuse and further than alcohol that in fact 79% of men and 76% of women watch pornography regularly. Obviously that's a particular sector and we're quoting Barner um as a lot of us are familiar with is that really um the situation that we with um is the situation that we facing is um really challenging with that amount of people being able to do it uh be be stuck into pornography. It's quite horrifying. Um I think probably one of the more challenging one is in terms of the pastors and the church and as we sit in that space and we try to think of you know with pastors and with the church digital and otherwise is there a safe space is there a space to go for leaders in the church youth leaders youth pastors worship leaders executive pastors pastors wives um and in that kind of space we we really feel that the work that we've been able to be exposed to um is significant. There's a desperate need uh sorry, excuse me, a desperate need of how do we provide help?

You know, is it an anonymous? And we'll touch on that a little bit later. Um is it best to bring it out onto the platform?

Is it best to be able to create a testimony out of it? How do we actually work in a space that is going to protect the church?

When we talk about pastors and leadership and I know there's many um out there um on on the platform today um it's a really important kind of process of what we needing to wrestle with how we bring it into the open and understanding that the pornography is one area and one aspect of it but the reality is that um it's everywhere it's in the church it's in the people that we sit next to the people that we work with um and it's certainly very definitely in the church I've got a great friend of mine Derek. He's quite a hooligan. Um, and he's like this is the leprosy that the that the current church the the nowadays church is facing inside of the church and if we don't take ownership and take development in that we are really going to get ourselves caught into a process that is not um helpful at all.

Talking about processes we we also need to understand the process addiction that myth that it's not so bad. A little bit of porn never hurt anybody. Um it's it's you know you know we work online so like why should that become a problem but if we really dig it deep and I'm sure all of you are also familiar with this and if not um I would encourage you to really dive into like researching data and see what the trends are because we want to go upstream we don't want to be the guys that are trying to catch people um in the dam at the bottom but to really go upstream and be part of the solution um and we understand that those kind of symptoms um are very similar when we are talking about coming off of a heroin addiction or if we are coming off of fentanyl um or if we're coming off of a pharmaceutical um or a sex addiction um or working out the relationship between a sex addiction and and and a marriage um and working in the space of eating disorders and how to manage that. The symptoms are all crossing over and the biological effects are also very very very closely tied into it. The neurological impact we know and understand now um is is one that can be restored but it takes time and we do need to create those new neurological pathways and to be able to foster healthy workable neurological pathways whilst also taking a change within the ability to understand the underlying principles. In fact, if you um I'm sure you've seen this one, I've said that a couple of times today, but but this particular slide really just stands out for me.

Um, we use it a lot in our training and when we go into the churches and we've trained into several thousand churches so far in our career in Project Exodus of changing the way that recovery is being delivered um and we see that the normal brain on the left hand side um looks healthy. Um we've been driving through an amazing part of the country um over the last two days and it often looks like they're brown and blaring but yet there's green and shrubs and growth.

But if you look at a heroin user and we compare that to somebody that's using pornography, the damage is significant uh and the similarities are also significant.

The challenge that the church and our environment faces that often when addiction is the the discussion or we are working with people that are coming out of addiction or fighting to find their way into freedom. Uh and remembering that freedom is is not just a a one-off kind of position. I know for me personally that the the healing and the and the immediate kind of miracle that took place with me besides my salvation is that my ability to have a freedom of choice was restored.

So my freedom of choice was restored. It remains my responsibility to maintain that freedom. But the families go um yeah the families get impacted significantly and we have to ask ourselves are we doing enough for the families? Are the families being given a voice? Are they along going along their own recovery journey? Are they getting the ability to understand what has happened to them? What the kind of trauma that sits within that kind of space? Because 71% um of spouses experience post-traumatic stress disorder symptoms. In fact, the intimate partner violence and the regular pornography use um is is just an escalating pandemic. The divorce rates are more than double um I believe and it is actually critical that we address recovery from a holistic perspective not just from the guys that are in recovery or battling to get in recovery or are using.

And the truth of the matter is that the process addiction is often more than just the same and just as damaging but far far greater.

Often we we hear the guys saying, "Well, I can't afford to go to rehab or if I get to rehab, that's going to solve the problem." And when the my loved one or employee or our church member gets back or our leadership gets back, then the rehab's done the job.

And we know that these days that is simply not the case. In fact, 90% of people who need treatment never receive it. We are fortunate in South Africa that we have a have a an ability to really try and reach far and wide through a national drug master plan.

But the resources to be able to deliver that is really really stretched and um unfortunately we know on an international level according to the World Health Organization um and the UNODC is that treatment challenges remain significant.

Affordability is a significant process around it. Availability to developmental resolution Christ centered program is limited. Often treatment rehabs are um the time that we've spent investing in our recovery in this worship disorder that we've aligned lives against careers against families um businesses and ministries against that one month or two months or three months is insufficient in terms of duration and has debatable efficacy. What is the particular challenge is that the continuum of care that needs to be maintained in treatment is often flawed and that break in communication the break in the continuity of treatment means that short-term treatment simply lacks efficacy in its sustainability. So from my perspective um if we look at time within recovery and there's that old saying I'm sure everybody knows that time takes time.

We have an amazing fruit here in South Africa called the pawpo um which takes time to get ripe and if you grab this beautiful succulent fruit and you try and squeeze it ripe we know that it doesn't feature into a way of any kind of duration.

So that 28 days um is not going to do very much in terms of but but assisting in the transition of stopping and perhaps getting a level of stabilization.

Long-term treatment takes time and the healing and the restoration is a critical component that goes with that. We found it really helpful in working with the churches and to be able to spread a good understanding of what addiction is and perhaps even what it's not, but more importantly what it is is to really be able to understand it from an iceberg principle. It shows a lot of um clarity in terms of folk who are not um understanding what the addiction um criteria are and who debate it and who wonder from a medical perspective whether that is covering it well.

But we do know the symptoms of what it looks like with isolation, denial, trauma, dual diagnosis, deregulation, shame, culture, spiritual, of course, spiritual disconnection, emotional intelligence, etc.

It really makes a significant impact if they have an understanding, especially from a church perspective that there's a complex and a substantial amount of work that needs to be done in that ongoing development and restoration as far as the east is from the west.

And in fact, when we look at recovery, we see truth, community, mental health being restored, new mindsets, healthy beliefs, self-worth, spiritual connection, authenticity, optimal brain functioning, relationships being restored, coping skills being established, and so on.

And we already see the fruits of a culture of recovery. And the reality sits and remains that the truth is that effective strategies and accessible access need to be ongoing.

It's not a one-off thing. It's not a quick fix. It's a process as we do the paradigm shift as far as the east is from the west.

We are pushing off of a point and driving towards the east. And in that space, we're pushing where we needing to build momentum, build culture, build sustainability.

And we understand critically that in the next myth that the church is not a hospital and it's not able to do the things that need to be done actually there's a whole lot that the church can done can do that hasn't been done I should add um the church has a pivotal role to play to provide continuum of care to provide support non-judgment to understand that it's not them and us critically people coming into recovery within the church actually is the whole church because we are in a state of recovery.

We are being restored to our rightful potential and position in Christ. And we know that that process of sanctification carries on the whole time.

It's just different levels. And in fact, when we work with the guys who are seeking recovery and healing and restoration, be it from trauma and post-traumatic stress and um and substance abuse and families being affected etc.

We are all on the same journey of seeking Christ and ready to push into it. And the church is perfectly positioned, perfectly positioned to take a stand.

So we know that scripture well. Um we know the scripture well and he does he does destroy. So from our perspective as project X is we love to empower the local church and the joy of digital is that the local church stretches far and wide.

Um and we really want to change the culture of addiction, of negativity, of um by works into a situation that actually there's work to be done in faith.

Um and to be able to work together in partnership and in in the ability to create a recovery culture through recovery services in a broader community base.

And the question remains that if the church doesn't do this, who will? I think within the states the war on drugs has been um ongoing uh in many ways in terms of walls in terms of budgets in terms of um yeah it's in all over the world that you know the the the the bridges that have been broken down of trying to get this right um and really the answer remains in the church and if the church doesn't who will many churches like host a meeting and they want just a meeting to be um great we've got a meeting guys and um I can see you're a bit under the that um at church today you're coming to pray for people but perhaps spending a little bit of alcohol. Um let's send them to a a a meeting um that's been hosted in the church.

That's not going to work from my perspective. We've got to break down the walls between them and us. We have to do that. The church needs to own the ministry as part of the church.

And when I so own the ministry, the congregation, the community, the leadership needs to start speaking about this and talking about it and really running and establishing a culture whirlpool of recovery within the church because we are looking for a church that is not inward-looking but outward-looking and that's where discipleship and um restoration takes place. My favorite scripture, we love to do this in training. It's a little bit difficult to do online, but this scripture of leaving the 99 in the wide open country and going after the one.

Um, and we and we at the moment are in sheep country. And let me tell you, there's thorn bushes and dry ground and snakes and everything else that goes with it.

But when you go after the one leave the 99, go after the one, it's not an easy process. It's not a quick fix. It's about going out and getting dirty, getting your hands dirty and really really making a difference within that space.

So remembering that leading a dynamic recovery ministry ministry is the church's mandate. It's not about the champion in the church or the guy who's got a vested interest in this.

It's not about that because the moment we take the iceberg principle, we know that only 10% is the actual addiction behavior and the 90% is what sustains it.

And anybody who's been through a death or grieving or post-traumatic stress or any of these multiple processes still have that 90% of hurt and shame or grief or processing or loss or any of these areas to work with.

And that is the church. It's not them and us. If we don't create this whirlpool deliberately and create that momentum, break the inertia and maintain that momentum, we are going to carry on losing the pathway.

Um, there's the subject about anonymity is critical. Um, I have a tattoo, um, which I'm not meant to be showing around, but I thought why not do it seeing it is online, but Ezekiel 37, um, valley of the bones.

We are raising up an army and it's not going to help if the guys have been quiet and ducking back to be in or not in sin or to be able to create a lack of accountability.

Accountability is the church. Authenticity is the church. Truth is the church. Speaking it out, bringing it out into the light. That's the church. So whilst we can respect that process of bringing people into the courage and ability of developing a testimony because we know we overcome by the power of the blood of the lamb and the word of our spoken testimony, that it is really, really, really critical. Sin dies in the light. It is a critical component that when I'm weak then I'm strong.

It's when I'm weak. His strength in fact is perfected in my weakness. Not my strength, his strength. And who wouldn't want that? Not that I'm encouraging to go and become addicted so that you can experience that.

No, quite the contrary. It's about you don't have to be an addiction to be involved in the recovery of the church. We need to shift this from shame into glory to be able to really bring to light spaces where nothing needs to be hidden.

Groups are a cutting edge process to be able to do that and to build community and to build that process. So I tonight want to just really say to you that life is better in a circle.

We are born that way. I'm not sure how much time is left. Um, and I would encourage you to jump onto our website and really find out much about our approach.

Our approach is innovative. It is Christ centered. It is new. It is cutting edge. It's piloted. Um, it is beautiful. And we would encourage you to really partake in life-giving, resolution-oriented, um, resources.

Jeff, um, I think you guys are amazing and we look forward to a way forward in the future and really let's raise up an army and get the work done that needs to be done.

Thanks so much.

Yeah. No, I, I, I, I love this. Conrad, don't go anywhere. Stay on. Um, such a good presentation. I was talking offline with um Andy and Stacy backstage and just the like the this is your brain, uh, this is your brain on whatever the drug was and this is your brain on porn like that was uh that was no pun intended mind-blowing for me. Um, to see you know what the effect of that is. The idea of um the recovery of the church where you know, okay, you may or may not be addicted to something, but we all can have a part playing in the recovery of the church and embracing the stigmas.

Six of seven, six of seven pastors have struggled with porn um at some time in their lives. And and I just did a mental check and I can think of five that I've had a conversation with in my lifetime.

I'm a guy that's worked with pastors, you know, the majority of my career life around that. And so, you know, there's there's a lot of stigmas that are surrounded by this.

Now, now we're I want to ask a couple questions. We're a bunch of, you know, um, you know, the Ragamuffin Band, uh, Square Pegs and Round Holes, Island of Misfit Toys, you know, we're both very much so and you know, we're we're the people who think differently.

So, you know, as an organization, as an individual at the individual levels really want to go. Yes. Um, what, what does, how do we, how do we change? Like normally how do we enact change?

Normally, it's like top down, okay, let's get a, you know, a lead pastor's got to get a vision and do something. And then there's like organization change.

That's that's really not who we are. We're we're we're individuals kind of at the bottom of this. And so, yeah.

How would you suggest what does it look like to maybe start to enact that change or create that cultural shift uh within organizations?

Sure. Sure. Jeff, I think you know and and and not to be clichéd and say like prayer is a good solution to it because it's you know obviously, but you know we have to pray for more wisdom and faith.

So I think it's a good decision to be able to educate ourselves as much as we possibly can in that area. We were up in uh Zambia a short while ago working with a whole bunch of bishops in those areas representing multiple churches and we were chatting to them and doing a presentation and they said your stats are great Conrad but let me tell you ours is that every week we see five bodies of people that have killed themselves um from um suicide from shame of pornography or homosexuality or those kind of spaces and substance abuse overdoses.

The Natal Lusaka. Um and and when you look at that and you start looking at the amount of children that have gone through sexual abuse um and the numbers are just staggering, absolutely staggering.

It comes down to one person making a change and making a difference. Um and it's about really embracing that process and saying, "I'm going to be making a difference and making a change." Start the conversations.

Be authentic. Be transparent. If you're struggling or you're going through it, don't hide. Don't give it the power. In fact, disempower it by bringing it into light with some strong, uh, strong folks.

You can speak to us. We can direct you great safe spaces initially to get this going um and to build the momentum. There's great training online.

You can jump onto the online training. We'll teach you how to run groups and I know a lot of us we've run small groups and those kind of things.

But when you have a good technique and good structure in that and then you have a um a depth of resource that is available to you which you can deliver within the group culture and the whirlpool very quickly we can create action and many churches start like that through small home groups.

So yeah get it started, get into it, uh, take a stand, prophesy.

I, I, I love this. I was going to ask a question about culture and how to establish the culture, but we actually just had a question come in in the Q&A that I think is good. What are signs that we are inventing a porn addiction? Um, instead of just uh every once in a while falling for porn like at what point is is it uh is the person saying I would not call it addiction just a bad thing?

Like at what point does it does it become oh I failed you know once to oh oh garbage I got a problem.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Brilliant question. Thanks for your courage of coming out and doing that. Um the answer to your questions I think you've answered the question.

Um the reality is that in our minds both from a biblical perspective um and from an addiction perspective is if we move this word addiction and we demystify the word addiction.

It's from a Latin word meaning wholly devoted to. Yeah. So if we take the picture of needles and deaths and everything else out of the way and we look at a behavior disorder and we look that we do not want to keep on crucifying Christ or going back into living in sin, we want to bring it into a place behind it. There's some hectic quotes. Um looking at pornography is as if heroin um has been devised 100 times stronger than heroin injected directly into our eyes.

When that image comes into your mind and into your process behind it, it's really difficult to remove. It alters the way that we think.

It alters our spiritual foundation and our spiritual base. In fact, Jesus Yeshua was so strong in it. He said, "If you lust with your eyes, you've committed adultery already within that space."

Not to give you a heavy or to lay a trip in it, but if you're assessing it, like why would you want to do it?

Why would you want to look at the daughter of our king being abused on a screen? Why would you want to be able to look at your daughter?

Perhaps we have to start asking ourselves some really seriously hard questions that is that in God's will or my will? And if we are really going to be reverent and pushing into a place of reverence um there's an amazing book John Bevere um maybe for some guys say it's not for everybody maybe don't know but for me the reverence of our king um is something that that changes lives um so if if you going to do it and you do it once that's once too much um it is probably the most addictive behavior that we can it it having run treatment centers um and we've had big treatment centers and running it for a long-term treatment. Pornography is perhaps one of the hardest behavior disorders. It's can the word addiction and and discard that.

That behavior disorder, how is so duplicitous and stealthy and so close to the truth in terms of sex and in terms of love and creation and marriage and all of those kind of things.

Why would we want to endanger ourselves and our godly purpose and our wives and our husbands and because the women are like a couple of percent down that road.

So yeah, if I ask you the question, you need to go challenge yourself.

Yeah. So good. Um it's just even even to follow up on on this at at a personal level and thank you the person that's asking the question anonymously.

Um it's um like for at a personal level for me I fought for years whether or not I was addicted. Um in that that years of me asking that question actually prevented me from from getting the help that I needed and and it wasn't until I said okay I don't even know what it means but okay I'm addicted. Um you know I I stopped the fight where I it the the brokenness of that actually I believe allowed God to kind of work through me in that it's not a problem it's not a problem yeah you know Romans Romans 3 as pastors we talk about it all the time you know for all of sin and fallen short we're we're not we're not getting there and so as a result of that you know what is addiction is it one time is it two times is it three times 10 20? Does it matter you know at at the greater point of this asking that question honestly became a defense mechanism preventing me from getting the help that that I that I needed.

Sure. Can I can I jump just one comment on onto the back of what you're saying? This when we start talking about breaking myths and breaking the process behind it, the the introduction of the word addict as a qualifying process behind it is a complete misdirection.

You know, it's like it's not about like I fit this label or I don't fit this label. You you said it. We square pegs and round holes.

We we not the guys that run within the same kind of process around it. Let's take that word addiction completely out. That whole thing of rock bottom completely out.

Who do you want to be in Christ? How do you want to behave? How would your daughter you like your daughter to be treated?

Let's ask ourselves some really hard questions. Take the word addiction out because that's is a block to the healing and restoration that waits inside for your weakness for his strength to be perfected so that you carry the authority of the creator of the universe on your shoulders.

Game changer. Why would we want to do it?

Yeah. So good. All right, Project Exodus. Uh, if you're in Hublau, the link's on the website.

If not, it's projectexodus.net is the website. Project Exodus dot net. Um, we, the church digital, are partnering with Project Exodus uh to create uh once again, Project Exodus works with churches and organizations to create a culture of recovery.

And we're happy to announce, we're going to get more into this here in a little bit that we are starting uh a recovery ministry and recovery groups and moving towards in that culture of recovery, working with Project Exodus literally in South Africa.

I'm excited. Stacy and the team has been working on this for uh for a couple months now, getting certified and getting equipped and trained in all this and so we're going to talk more about the beta in a little bit.

But at an organizational level, if you're interested in creating a culture of recovery, projectexodus.net is a great option for you. Conrad, I know we've had some frustrating tech issues today, but I want to thank you for jumping on today and I hope you have a good evening in South Africa.

Yeah, and uh we'll be in touch soon, I'm sure.

Wonderful. Thanks so much. God bless you.

Thank you, sir. Bye. All right. And like that we have moved on.

Listen, I mean part of recognizing at the recovery issue is you got a problem and I love that it was kind of a shocking moment for me, right? It's like okay, like okay, even if I don't have a recovery problem, the church has a recovery problem. The church with the stigmas and unable to endorse this and recognize this. Uh pastors who are afraid to talk about it for fear of many different things like there's a issue. Um and uh and we the church digital man I want to go down that road.

Listen, the idea of creating a safe space for pastors to be able to talk about this that is going to be one of my pet projects in 26. I think I'm kind of setting that one aside. Um maybe 27. But the idea as an organization that we want to help digital missionaries uh embrace the idea of recovery.

One, we do uh recovery on addictive platforms. Let's recognize that the technology we work with is addictive. Two, there is more boldness of people on these platforms to acknowledge and embrace their addictive behaviors. They're either addicted to the platforms or they talk about or they exude or they show their addictive behaviors in digital and virtual reality space.

And three, we're recruiting volunteers as well to do ministry in that space. And so we have to be comfortable as digital missionaries in digital churches. We have to be comfortable dealing with uh these topics. And we need to once again if we're going to shine the light in the darkness, we got to shine it on ourselves.

And so we're going to get more into that light in that theme moving forward. Hey Claire, I see Claire just jumped into the chat. Good to see you, Claire. Uh, you know, it's so good. I've seen a lot of chat happening in Hubalo and I know um we are uh doing this in Twitch as well and seeing some good engagement there.

Uh you know what, Andy, it's not on my screen. Can you bring Stacy on real quick? Stacy uh has been working with Andy may not be available. Working on some things. Let me get Stacy on here. Um, oh, hey Stacy. How's it going, Stacy?

Hey, hey.

Hey. I saw Andy was working with some tech issues offline. So, um, I just called you on earlier. Nothing happened. It's cool. Andy was producing in the back end. It's a moving target today. How are you doing, Stacy?

Doing well. Doing well. That uh and I've heard those statistics and I've been through the training, right? But just to see the image again and hear the stats again is just I just reinvigorates me and of my passion why it's important to TCD to all of us to the church um as a whole and then for us here what does that mean for us you know what does that mean what for individuals people we're equipping and sending out into digital space people are already there ministering in the space so Um, we want to like we talked about nurturing a culture of recovery, not a culture of addiction, right? Um, man, so powerful.

Yeah. I mean, we are I mean, we're on these platforms that are addictive and so, you know, putting on the digital armor of God um to a to protect ourselves, but b also being transparent about our struggles to be able to acknowledge what's what's working, what's not working when we're struggling. Not being in, you know, in fear. I told the story in the first session about how like, you know, when I was struggling, there was uh I had an executive pastor literally say, "If if you're struggling with addictive sin, quit your job because I don't want you to screw up what God's doing through this church." And uh and you know, at at that moment, I was like, "I'm never going to say anything about this again." And uh and so like, but that's not a that's not a healthy place for for anyone. That just, you know, builds on that that stigma and and we through the church digital, we need to move beyond that um moving forward.

And so I'm so happy, you know, to be working with you and, you know, there's some others on the team that are that are getting certified as as well, but we're we're going to be launching a recovery uh material. We're going to be launching a recovery I you know, culture is the right word. It's it's more than a course. Um, but there's there's an opportunity to do this um at at a global level and and so uh we're going to be doing we're going to be talking more about this this down the road, but the idea of creating uh beta groups uh to start to meet men with men, women with women digitally. But that's really the first step for us these groups towards creating this culture of of what it would look like uh for digital missionaries to embrace not only to keep our ourselves straight but to also be more effective so that we can be reaching and connecting with others and be able to to embrace that.

And so Stacy and some others we're going to talk more about that later but Stacy's been working really hard uh towards towards getting that going. Maybe Stacy for 30 seconds. Talk a little bit about the the process, what you're learning, like how how that's that's been going.

Yeah, it has been quite quite a lot killing trees with all the paper I've uh printed out from these trainings because it's I I need to see it. I need to write my notes on it and everything. So, I know for some of you digital folks out there that's like, "Oh, no. I'm not doing that." But for me, that's really what is necessary. And over and over and over, these are the big takeaways. Uh it is a it is process, you know, that we didn't get to this point overnight. We didn't um have these uh behaviors overnight, you know, and so that was so that's meaningful. And the other one is that this is about doing the work in community in community with people with trusted people. This is not about um getting through the steps or getting through the program. It is working it with with yourself but also in in group work.

And that to me was so helpful because I think we tend to do this by ourselves. Conrad even referenced, you know, the darkness, keeping it hidden. No, we're going to bring it into light and with each other so we so we're not alone and understanding one another and not fixing one another, but to say that no, we are listening and we are going to be um be challenged and also build our own faith uh because of the stories we hear from other people. Um it is not something that oh like the 12 steps 12 and done. No we we learn the you saw the iceberg model. We saw the iceberg model all the maladaptive behaviors under you know and just the deep stuff underneath the surface of what um where the all these things came from where the the behaviors came from.

So, I am just really excited and the Hey, by the way, this is not uh this is hard work. Heads up, people. Like, you're going to I don't want to I I don't want to be the Debbie Downer here, but it's hard work. I'm 50 years old right now. And I I these behaviors didn't it took me this long to even discover and uncover. So uh you know it's going to take some time and this is not a one-time thing. It is continuing and this is all part of providing care. Um this is one aspect of it. But when we talk about um the the the work that's going to be required of us um you know it's it's a part of following Jesus. It's to me it's it's discipleship. It is if we're going to we call ourselves Christians, followers of Jesus. Um we're we have work to do and with the power of God and his spirit dwelling within us.

So uh the link is on the screen in Hubalo if you're watching on other platforms. The church.digital/recovery the church.digital/recovery digital recovery. Uh we're starting a beta um in uh at the end of uh or in January, January 26. Uh we'll be kicking off groups and or maybe you're interested in getting certified, learning how to, you know, get involved in even other ways in in addressing the culture shift uh towards recovery of the church digital.

And so feel free to fill out the form there on the church.digital/recovery. uh Stacy, Ian, uh Jose, um you know, one of them will be getting in touch with you and um and and and figuring out how best you can plug in. But we are we're rolling out a beta in uh the leadership, we as leadership, we're doing it in 25. Um we're we're starting the beta in in 26 and looking forward uh to taking this out in a big way. It's just one of the many resources that that we are providing uh for this uh at the uh at the global level for missionaries.

One thing I also want to just say briefly on this and I want to talk about this this publicly here on the stream Stacy is um so with with the with all the conferences I I I love this idea I'm starting um you know I love this idea we've been doing forever starting this week with doing um a that was a joke Stacy you're supposed to laugh. She just totally didn't get there was a joke.

Sorry, I'm paying attention to the chat because something we're talking about could be something people could be interested in VR MMO Church.

Oh, interesting. There's some Yeah, I I'm not looking at chat. So, thank you Stacy for digging into that with the transition. We're trying to figure out how to get the recovery into the VR metaverse gaming space and um like we've got a plan. Uh we've got some people um we have uh some interest uh and and I like I'm just going to be brutally honest right now in this moment. I don't have the money organizationally. We don't have it. And so this is what I'm going to say. For the next seven days, we the church digital any money that comes in via donations uh will be dedicated towards um specifically towards uh getting recovery in VR and in metaverse and in gaming space.

And so if you are willing to to give financially, you can click on the button in Hubalo or uh the church.digital uh give the church.digital/give. You can give uh through there all sorts of a credit card whatever hey you got bitcoin we can take bitcoin um but uh would love to connect with with people through that and and if you're interested in giving financially um you can uh do that as well somebody's asking a question about PTSD PTSD are you equipped with well-trained people for something like that or is that something you'd rather not touch it's it's interesting Stacy I'll let you maybe address in a second But um ju as we're looking at recovery and care um there's opportunities to go beyond I'm speaking general recovery towards more specific recoveries and more uh specific issues like you're talking about with PTSD. Uh there are people even within our network that specialize in some of these niche nuance topics.

And so we want to create partnership opportunities or relationships to say, "Hey, if this is a specific issue, you know, let's get you connected to somebody that is more specifically trained that way." But Stacy, could you speak to maybe at the general level like what the groups would look like in January, what maybe a PTSD solution would be?

Yeah, so that's a great question, too. Thank you so much, the person who posted that. Um, while we are not trained specifically for that, a lot of times in these groups, especially what we're going to roll out in January, there's a lot of discovery in this. So at the beginning there's a lot uncovering, discovering, and as a chaplain for me, a lot of times we—not a lot of times, but chaplains—good chaplains keep a list of allies and resources, meaning specific to the care that you need, help that you need. And so, you know, when it comes to digital though, what's interesting is that a lot of times people want in-person care for that. And so it's really based on your location, you know, what trusted people that you know in your area. Now, if it's online, I do have a list of digital resources for that. But this specifically is a good starting point. If you have not completely discovered or uncovered that already, you will when in these groups. So it's more of peeling back the layers. Like I said, it's more of the underlying, under the deeper part of the iceberg, you know, under the surface. So, yeah, we in our training—I will say, you know, there's a lot of training, but we're working through it ourselves. This isn't something where we're certified and that or counselors or therapists. No, this is not that. But it is a little more than pure peer-to-peer though too. So somewhere it's in the middle of space in there. So hopefully that answers your question. If you have more questions, feel free to reach out.

Yeah. Feel free to shoot myself, Jeff, at the church digital, or Stacy, Stacy at the church digital, an email. Yes. Um, we're also available on WhatsApp and Discord, and so feel free to DM. You know, I understand some of these are sensitive topics, and even the questions that have been asked have been anonymous, which I respect. Um, you know, feel confidence in taking that next step and leaning in to maybe share some of the transparency of what you're experiencing. To be honest, talking about it is such a relief, such a just a release of pressure in my life. I can share that. And so I would encourage you to take a step and, you know, start to talk about this in safe environments that you can trust, and we're safe environments.

Side note, whatever you share with me, whether it's an email or something like that, know that it's shared in confidence. I take that very, very seriously. Um, there are exceptions, right? If you seriously threaten to harm yourself, harm someone else, break the law, or whatever, you know, those kinds of things. But yeah, I'm not—we're not looking to share everyone's information. This is very important that we keep confidentiality.

Awesome. Hey Stacy, thank you very much for jumping on this, and I'm sure, well, I think you're coming up later in the conference, maybe a panel, probably, so we'll figure it out.

I think panel at the end.

Panel something. Yeah. I mean, it's all over at this point.

I thought that too.

Whatever. Yeah. All right. We'll see you later.

Yep. Yeah. Peace.

Thanks, Stacy. Hey, so be sure to check out the church.digital/recovery for being part of our beta. And part of that beta, once again, we would love to dive in and start to build out a metaverse, a gaming and virtual reality presence, working with churches like VRMO Church and others that are in place. VRMO is the DJ Soto's deal. And so, um, the church.digital/give. Financially, if you can help us, any giving that comes in for the next week, the next seven days until our European conference next week, um, any giving that comes in, any donations that come in, we'll earmark it straight for VRMO. Or should not for VRMO, we'll earmark it for metaverse recovery, working with VRMO and some other initiatives that we've got in those spaces.

Okay. Hey, listen. We've got a break coming up, but before we go there, um, let's go ahead and get John on because, hey John, how's it going?

Good. How are you?

Good. You've had a busy week this week. John's up at a conference somewhere else. Where are you right now?

I'm in Orlando right now. So I'm in Orlando.

You're in the backyard conference. Another missions conference.

Yeah. And so excited about what's going on there at that conference, but also excited about what's going on with Reliance. So Reliance has been one of our partners in ministry for a while. And um, one of the biggest problems that we hear from digital missionaries is funding. What is it, you know, full-time job, bivocational? They've got to have a full-time job or money elsewhere. How are they funding themselves? How are they funding the ministry that's happening? And I kind of stumbled upon John looking for solutions, and so, um, John, why don't you just share a little bit about Reliance and how you're helping digital missionaries globally.

Yeah, absolutely. So one of the things, just to say, the conversations you guys have been having today are incredible. Stacy is incredible, y'all. And just this space of as you are stepping in and wondering about, you know, not wondering about doing digital ministry, doing digital missionary work, how do you care for yourself and your soul and do those things is like such a gift, and how you do that sustainably and those things, I'm just a huge, huge fan of. And so at Reliant, that's a big part for us as well—wanting to see missions be able to thrive, to see missions work able to be sustainable and to do those things. And so first, do the good work of your soul and do those sorts of things, but then as you or others may have ministries that you're wanting to say, "Hey, we would love to be able to do more of this. Maybe you want to invest more time. You want to bring in more team. You might want to do those things. Or you might even just want to be more sustainable from a financial perspective for this ministry that you're doing, this actual ministry that you're doing, right?" Sometimes it can feel a little bit in the world of like, "It's just like, no, you're doing ministry. You're doing good work." I was just backstage with Andy chatting about like the pastoral weight that is being felt right now and the things that you're doing, and y'all are on the front lines in the lobbies. You're in the front lines of the Discords. You're in the front lines of helping people process these things, and what that looks like. You're doing incredible, incredible ministry. And so for me, my heart is to help just to help make more ministry happen, to help make more ministry possible. And what we do with that at Reliant is we come alongside you. We can train and coach you on how to raise funds for the work that you're doing, how to invite people to partner with you. It's not begging for money. It's not doing these things. It's saying, "Hey, here's this thing God is up to. Let me tell you a story about what happened in this lobby the other day. Let me tell you a story about what happened in VR the other day. Here's what God is doing. Will you join me? Will you be a partner?" He talked about this in Third John. It's good that we give so that we can be a part of the ministry over there, we can be a part of the thing. And so how do we train? We can train and coach you on how to have those conversations, build that team. So one, you have a team behind you. You have people behind you supporting you and what that looks like. Two, you can be sustainable. You can pay some bills. You might be able to eat, you know, more than instant pack ramen three meals a day, which I've had those seasons of doing those things, and doing that right, Jeff, as well. And then we also come alongside to do the backend support, employment support in that. And so we're going to help make payroll happen, help have HR, benefits, retirement, all those sorts of things, kind of coming alongside and serving so that ultimately the hope is that you can stay focused on the mission, stay focused on the thing you're doing, and do that really well, supported with a team behind you, and know some of that operational burden of what that takes of receiving those funds and what that is. And oftentimes what we do is we partner with TCD and you to do those things, or you may have your own org and do those things. And so that's how we come alongside and get to do it. And in my heart, you know, I'm here wearing the Love Thy Nerd. If anybody's familiar with the LTN crew, like I love the space you guys are in. And even just personally, I'm really excited to help this space become better supported and more sustainable. And that means first off the health, your health, your emotional, mental health, what you guys are doing today, and then hopefully as well some of the financial health and how we can come alongside.

Hey, there it is, another LTN shirt. So that's what we do. I would love to chat about it. You know, Jeff might have some other comments, but on our profile, the Reliant profile, unfortunately, I'm not able to hang out a ton today just because of running around at this conference that I'm at here, but in our profile, anything that you click on gets to me eventually. So I would love to chat with you and have a conversation as well. We have a few videos for just the biblical foundations of support raising. Support raising can feel icky. A lot of us can feel icky about it. There's a lot of things that we can feel, but we believe it is deeply biblical about what it means to invite people to be a part of what God is doing. And there's some videos there that you can access to begin to kind of embody that and get that in of what it means to do that. So, yeah.

Awesome. Hey. Yes. So, um, you—I'll get you information, or like right now when we take a break here in a couple minutes, you can click on sponsor at the top. It'll list out all the sponsors. Click on Reliant booth, and you can watch any of the videos and access information there. Uh, John, if they want to reach out to you directly, I know there's forms on websites, or it's reliant.org.

john.crawford@reliant.org. But I'd say the safest thing is just go to reliant.org, and almost any contact gets to me eventually. So you can however you want to contact Reliant, you'll get to me.

Awesome. Yeah. So go ahead and do that. I'll put a link on here in Hubalo. Uh, not that one. That one—guidance on back office and fundraising. Click on that link in Hubalo. If you're watching on Twitch or VR, it's reliant.org. And so, John, thanks for jumping on here. I would show you my shirt, but it's actually Coldplay. And so it's not Love Thy Nerd. And so I didn't get the memo to coordinate. I wish I had known, but um, thanks for coming on, John, and being a part of this conference, but also what you're doing to support missionaries and digital missionaries here on this journey. So thank you very much.

Thanks for having me, guys. I appreciate it.

Awesome. Yeah. So check out, um, as John's leaving, as John's leaving, as John's still here.

Bye, John. As John left, be sure to check out reliant.org for more information on the fundraising abilities. I know Leighton is doing it directly.

Hey, Leighton, and some others within TCD and Nesh is, and I'm trying to think of some others. I know some are in that process of getting started, but we do through the Church Digital, we do help missionaries get connected and then work with them through the Church Digital for the fundraising ability. I actually have to do some paperwork on that right now.

I've got a couple missionaries I've got to work with on that, but that's a conversation for a different day. So, hey, we're behind schedule.

Hey, welcome to the new normal. So we're going to take a ten-minute break. A ten-minute break. It is 1:25 Eastern right now.

So the minute hand is at 25. We're going to come back and we're going to get started again with another keynote at 35, 1:35 Eastern, UTC minus 4, when the minute hand is at 35.

We are in session three. And so thanks, check out, or you know, if you're in India it's 05, I think 30 minutes off there, but for everybody else, 35, check out the sponsors, the sponsor tab up at the top, and then also check out the tables, connect with somebody, ask some questions, go get some coffee. It's going to be a good conference. We got to keep churning away. So thanks everybody. Ten-minute break, be back at 35 on the minute.

— departure log decoded via WhisperX, lightly cleaned for reading —